[Matt_Ward]

In playing a wide assortment of modern courses each year I'm struck by the fact that something seems to be missing from modern design -- the long  par-3. What do I mean by long -- I mean a hole that plays at 230 yards or more.

Many times when land is in short supply I almost wonder why a long par-3 is not included to give a course the full compliment of types of holes. Too many par-3's today are of the downhill variety. One of these in a round of golf is usually enough. Sometimes there is an overload and with it comes predictability in shot demands and ability.

I believe any compliment of par-3's should have at least one long par-3 that tests your skill with the long iron or even wood. Clearly, the granddaddy of them all is the 16th at Cypress. Among those of note from some classic courses I  can name include the following:

5th at Pine Valley (235 yards)
8th at Oakmont (about 245 yards)
5th at Fisher's Island (about 230 plus)
4th at Riviera (235 yards)
13th at Knoll (248 yards)

Among modern courses a few to note include:

2nd at Bandon (235 yards)
6th at Bandon (218 yards) *But usually into the north wind
3rd at Twisted Dune (NJ) / (235 yards)
3rd at Barona Creek (CA) / (260 yards!)
17th at Straits Course (Whistling Straits) / 240 yards from extreme tips!

Is the long demanding par-3 a part of modern design or is it destined to be remembered as an extinct dinosaur? I hope it isn't because when designed properly this type of hole can really add so much given the advances in club and ball technology.

What amazes me is that in old time classic courses these holes must have seemed even longer because club and ball technology is not close to what we have today. Does this type of hole have a role and what should it be?

[THuckaby2]

Matt:  as technology "advances" there is not going to BE such a thing as a LONG PAR 3 pretty soon... as it is, using the Barona example, I'd have to guess that 260 hole is no more than a middle iron for Tiger (and you).  It's pretty downhill and the turf is so damn firm you have to bounce it up at least 20 yards short... I could see Tiger hitting WEDGE there if it's downwind!

The point is, long par 3's don't mean much to the big hitters the way techology is going.  Yes, longer means forcing them to use more stick, but what the hell, what's the difference between a wedge and an 6iron really?

Thus I'd say why fight it?  Make tougher, shorter holes rather than take up the land with long ones...

I fully realize I am WAY stretching this point, and yes there should be a place for long par3's.  But given the only people they effect (and very adversely at that) are your average-length players, what purpose do they serve for them?

It's a tough call, and I am all for variety, but I'd rather have all the par3's be 150 or less, with a variety of green shapes and wind directions, then just making one 230+ just to have it.

TH

ps - I know your reputation for being a VERY long hitter, but let's not get carried away with those yardages... Having played many of the holes you list, I can attest that there are tees on each significantly shorter - where us mortals play from!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Matt,

You are forgetting the 267 yard 17th at Colbert Hills on your list.  And that plays dead into the wind, to boot.  It's been called the best short par 4 in Kansas!

I think most architects are moving towards lat least on long par 3 as a means to require the use of mid to long irons at least once per round by the  best players.  And, if we don't want average players sweating, we can always move the middle tees forward.

On the other hand, any course designed for average players can easily avoid long par 3's.  I think the average guy would love a 5-7 iron in his hands on all four par 3's, over the the design variety of a very short, very long, and a couple of very different medium length holes.

I agree that 220 yard plus holes must have been really hard in the old days.  It probably still is for most of us.

[THuckaby2]

Outside of the fine players I meet through this forum, I play with a LOT of "average" players.

And Jeff is right on:  they HATE long par3's with a passion.  Give them 5iron max and they are quite content.  Wedge holes are beloved.

TH

[ChipOat]

Merion #17 - 230 (a bit downhill) from the back with its own Valley of Sin to negotiate.  Probably could run it up there before watering system - now must be carried.

[Doug Wright]

Matt,

I'd say there is a role for the long par 3--if, like any other hole I suppose, it fits the land and the routing, and also if there's enough room for players at all levels to enjoy the hole. I've seen a couple of good ones lately--#11 at Talking Stick North at 235-250+ and Buffalo Run #13 near Denver (Keith Foster) come to mind as examples of a solid hole that'll yield to par but you have to hit more than an iron--so I wouldn't consign the long par 3 to the dinosaur pit just yet.

All The Best,

[redanman (Guest)]

Mattie

I guess #3 Lehigh at 227 to the middle is too short?

How about #5 at PGA West Stadium (One of my favorite modern holes)

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

16 Carnoustie and 6 Turnberry (one of my favorites, very womb-like green complex)

[Ran Morrissett]

The apparent demise of long par threes is saddening. My very favorite hole in golf is a long par three (16 at CPC) and also in my top ten would be another one (9 at Yale).

To be sure, both holes enjoy unique situations but they share a common ingredient: they are as fun/inspiring to play as any other type hole that you can name.

Of course, the Brits have long appreciated the merits of such a hole and one of their secrets seems to be that the green is often one of the more severe ones on the course. Thus, a hole like 14 at Nairn becomes just a ton of fun to play thanks to its amazing (!) green contours. Same with 15 at Ballybunion Old.

Amongst modern long par threes, one of the few fun ones that I 've seen of late would have to be 5 at Lost Dunes, with its fall-away green.

Cheers,

[Anthony_Nysse]

#6 at the TPC at PGA WEST-258yds
#4 and #10 at Friar's Head - 230yds+
#17 at Crosswater-244yds
#9 at Arcadia Bluffs-240yds
#13 at Wolf Run-240 yds
#13 at Doral-235yds

[TEPaul]

Matt:

You're so right about how long some of those old classic super long par 3s must have been in the old days with yesteryear's equipment.

A couple of other long ones around Philly, Whitemarsh Valley's #4, about 245, Rolling Green's #10 about 245, Philly Country's #15 about 230 now, straight uphill, White Manor's #3, 247! But all of these have the big-tongue fairways, sometimes fifty plus yards of it!

I think the slight demise of those holes in the "Modern Age"  was a couple of things. One, the ground game went soft and took away that neat option and, second the whole idea of GIRs didn't exist in the old days the way it does today!

Chipping or even pitching back then was OK even on a long par 3, a more expected thing to have to do. You get some guy who thinks he can play today hitting his best shot and realizing he can't get near the green on this kind of par 3 and get his GIR and he might even go ballistic and attack an architect at a basketball game or some craziness like that!

[redanman (Guest)]

Matt

Also the famous 12th at the even more famous Runnnnnning Deer and #3 at Twisted Dunes.

Is #3 at Hamilton Farms long enough for you at 242?


  
Matt Ward-Poster Boy for reigning in the ball!!!!!!

 

[TEPaul]

redanman:

What do you think Matt would have to use to fly a gutta percha onto that Hamilton Farms par 3? Like about a 4 iron?!

[Matt_Ward]

Tom Huckaby:

Thanks in being honest -- many players fear the long par-3 and that's why it should be a part of the overall picture. Please do not think I'm advocating a quartet of long range monsters but the downhill-see-everything par-3 is like the drive-thru fast food place ... every new course has one -- enough already!

One good long par-3 plaved in the right part of a courses's routing (i.e. 4th at Riviera, 5th at PV, etc) can be a wonderful addition. What makes each of those courses so unqieu is the coutner balance with the 6th at Riviera and the 10th at PV.

Anthony Nysse:

Kudos in mentioning the 9th at Arcadia Bluffs -- solid par-3 of 240 yards and in dead air I was able to fly a 5-iron to the middle of the green with the pin hard left. Ler's keep in mind the hole plays from a slightly elevated tee although I played from the tips. Miss left with the tee shot and you can take your ball drop in Wisconsin instead of Michigan.

An absolutely delicious hole that you could sit outside for hours and just gaze at its design glory.

Couple of other points to mention. Are there any long par-3's that have below average size greens? I'm amazed that many classic courses from long ago had this incredibly hard hole of length coupled with greens that were not much bigger than those greens you might use a short iron. Many of these holes are in the Northeat and Midwest because the old time designers used to add this element to their designs. It's clear they weren't interested in offering lame-duck par-3's where everyone just grans a short iron automatically.

My point is a simple one -- I think it's fair game to reassess the long par-3 by pushing back the yardage if ground conditions permit it. The 3rd at Barona Creek is a good example at 260 yards. On the face of it many people would say you are crazy but if you saw the hole and played the right tee box you can enjoy the challenge (it does that and more) without being brutal.

Tom, with all due respect, minus a hurricane behind his back -- Tiger is not going to reach that hole with a PW. I hit a 5-iron and used the firm conditons to roll the ball to the back third of the green.  

Before anyone jumps on my case -- I love short par-3's because having total control of the nerves wioth a short iron is no less a part of golf. I've mentioned on a separate thread the sensational 9th hole at The Kingsley Club -- hats off to Mike DeVries for such a unique hole that will make any grown man cry if they miss at just 165 yards from an elevated tee to a superbly contoured green. I hit a PW but went long and played Roberto Duran with my hands of stone effort on that respective green. Great, great hole.

I'b interested in seeing a listing of long par-3's where the greens are not super big and where total control is an absolute must -- you know the easy bogey but tough, tough par. Any choices?

[Tim_Weiman]

Matt,

Much as I think emphasis on length is sometimes overdone, I'm with you on this topic, especially if a course has both a good real long par 3 (230 Yards plus) and a good real short par 3.

Tom Paul mentioned Whitemarsh Valley's #4 at around 245 yards.  I recall the course also has a real good short par 3 of 120 yards or less.  It sits near the clubhouse, I just don't remember the hole number.

That kind of menu is far better that a steady diet of mid length par 3s.

[TEPaul]

Tim:

Whitemarsh's little par 3 is #9--a great little old fashioned hole!

[Tim_Weiman]

Tom Paul:

Yes.  I love that hole.....despite not seeing it for more than twenty years.

[Brad Klein]

The problem with long par-3s is that the emphasis on length makes it easy to forget about strategy, yet for most real golfers they play like par 3.5s and so should offer really good options, where as for pros they are merely 2-irons or the occasional 4-wood.

I'm surprised no one mentioned some classic Ross par-3s that must have been unimaginable killers in an era of hickory shafts, suspect golf balls, and small wooden heads. Try the following out (approx. yardages), all built before 1927:

-4th at Worcester CC - 235 yeards to a plateau green

-12th at Hyde Park G&CC, Cincinnati - 225 across a double ravine to a plateau

-9th at Maketewah, Cincinnati - 225 across a huge ravine

-14th at Scioto, Ohio - 220, uphill, sharply bunkered on the right

-17th at Brae Burn, Mass. - 255, downhill, to a low-slung green

-3rd at CC of Waterbury, Conn. - 230, downhill

-4th at Essex County Club, Mass. -  235, with a brook down the left and huge bunkers on both sides

-13th at Wampanoag, Conn. - 225, with a massive cross bunker 80 yads short and a slong upslope in front of the green

[ian andrew (Guest)]

Matt, I would say the opposite; the disappering hole is the short par 3. There is such a push to "make" yardage, that many modern designs have at least one very long par 3.

The question that others gave me is, what length is now a long par 3?

[Craig_Rokke]

I think both the short par 3 and the long are disappearing.
It seems like many newer courses have at least 3 par 3's in the 170-195 range.

[Tim_Weiman]

Craig,

I have the same impression.

[Bill_McBride]

Didn't Hal Sutton hit 4-wood onto the 18th green at East Lake?  That was pretty unusual for today's golf.  Saw Kenny Perry hit 4-iron to the 15th at TPC of Scottsdale on Sunday, 238 yards over water!

Tommy Naccarato will remember the almost back-to-back 250+ par 3's at Yorba Linda CC - sandwiched around a looonng par 5!  As I recall (from 1963 college tournament), one or both played a bit uphill..........

[Craig_Rokke]

Speaking of Twisted Dune, the day I played, the breezes
were such that I think 3 of the 4 one-shotters played the equivalent of 200 yards or more.

Other noteworthy long 3's:

Casa De Campo#7
Riviera#4

[ChipOat]

Brad Klein

Re: "killer" par 3's in the 1920's.  I'd like to do a thread someday on distance, the ground game, unwatered fairways and the 1.62" ball in the 1920's.  I suspect some of those holes might have been more reachable than we know - not entirely in the air.

Enjoyed the Donald Ross book.

CO

[Chris Hervochon]

In a perfect world a golf course would have a 270+- yard par 3., and another that was 110 or less.  The other two would be in between.  But I think what would be really neat was if the short one was really tough with a really small green, and the long one had a larger, albeit incredible (slopes etc.) green.  JMO.

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