Shag Carpet Golf ?

[Matt_Ward]

Been playing at a few layouts sprinkled through the southwest and now southeast area and have to say that when certain types of bermuda grass grows in to the fullest the nature of design (especially bounce of the ball) is rendered almost useless.

Just point-to-point golf at its absolute worst - especially when facing various pitches and chips around greens. Just kills the bounce almost cold -- everything needs to be flown to the exact yardage. Enough already.

No doubt there are other strains that provide a bit more "release" but shag carpet golf is a waste of time when the surface is in full bloom. Please for those superintendents or those who love the surface wax on about how good it may be in the winter time -- I know that but the issue is when you get warm weather and the grass just fills in to the max. Have to wonder if the grass can really be cut to such a tight level to provide any real "release" on the ball.

[Bill_McBride]

Stay up north, pardner!  It's still better than kikuyu.

[Matt_Ward]

Bill:

I don't care for kikuyu either. No doubt there are other strains of Bermuda which provide a better and somewhat firmer surface.

For whatever reason -- when Bermuda is not cut really tight it can grow so quickly and densely that the bounce of the ball is completely eliminated. Don't know how design can really deal with that dimension and how a course can max itself out to the fullest potential.

[Tim Nugent]

Matt, yes there are all kinds of Bermudas, from legy, woody Common, through the vegatively proprogated old hybrids like 419 and 328 down to the ultra-dwarfs like Champion, Tiff Eagle.  Unfortunately, the tigher, finer bladed hybrids don't grow fronm seed but rather cuttings (stolens) so once you got something, thats what your stuck with unless you plan on killing off, tilling up and re-sprigging (that will take a summer to do).  Of course yoou can always just cut it as tight as you can and hope it doesn't rain.  Warmth and rain equal rapid growth and you have wait for it to stop raining in order to mow it. Catch 22.

You have hit upon a main reason desert target golf design flurished - balls just didn't ruin off into the desert.  Velcro golf

[Matt Day]

Primo is a great product for tightening up bermudagrass

[Ken Moum]

Bad as it is, I find the zoysia that proliferates in the Transition Zone is a couple of orders of magnitude worse.  But the folks up here LOVE being able to hit their flip/scoop three woods and chips shots off the stuff.  It gets so bad that I have to use both hands on my Powacaddy to keep it going in the correct direction.

I admit most of my golf on bermuda has been Sept. through May, so I might not have seen it in it's worst condition.  At least most of the courses I've played make some attempt to keep it short.

Zoysia courses in Kansas and Missouri (where my experience is) almost never keep it short enough to allow even one bounce on a chip shot.

K

[Matt_Ward]

Ken:

Thanks for the info - no doubt the grasses you mentioned are included because they appeal to the less educated folks who prefer the soft carpet type things -- design of any type suffers because of it.

Courses also play much longer because of non-rolls.