Castle Course being blown up?

[Steve_Roths]

http://www.cybergolf.com/golf_news/a_round_of_golf_with_mike_keiser_the_visionary_behind_bandon_dunes

I hadn't heard this new yet...

[Tom_Doak]

Not sure what the writer would quantify as "blowing up" the course, but he doesn't seem to think too kindly of David, as he veers well off his story line in order to post that.  I'm sure Mike will not be too pleased to read it, either.

[Bill_McBride]

Some very harsh comments about David Kidd there, surprised at the extrapolation from one comment by Mike Keiser.

[John Kavanaugh]

Never play golf with a blogger.  Could he grope that poor girl just a bit more?

[Gary Slatter]

I recall meeting the author at the Writer's Cup in St Andrews in 2009.  He also said he is a caddie at Baltusrol "to make ends meet".

[Melvyn Morrow]

March 03 2008

The Castle Course at St Andrews may wish to redesign itself!

I thought I would check through some of our old photo’s to see if we had
anything on Biarritz (or perhaps even the Chasm), but no. So decided to
spend sometime checking out the photos from The University of St Andrews
Archive web site (real interesting, if you have the time), so having scanned
through the best part of 1000 photos, I have so far found no mention of
The Chasm. However found some pictures from The Castle Course area
at St Andrews.

Sorry, I am unable to download the photos, as my attachment download tells me that ‘an error has occurred’ and that ‘the upload folder is full’. So
I hope someone will be kind enough to download them on my behalf. 

Looking at the photos they appear to be the early foundations for one of the very deep bunkers. I have also learnt that the course may possess
the ability to add its own additional bunkers or hazards as you play the course – that is thanks to, surprisingly German old heavy earth moving technology, in the form of unexploded WW2 bombs which had been dropped on the Boarhills area circa 1940. What was that thread I posted
a few weeks ago ‘Land Fit for Purpose'? Looks like the Castle Course may have some hidden depths (or should I have called it, heights) for the unsuspecting golfer.

Perhaps a word of warning when playing the course – well to those big hitters, please play with caution!   

In all seriousness, the course is safe – remember the amount of soil movement when the course was constructed, all allegedly without any mishap.

Land, indeed fit for purpose!!  Any more courses out there with similar stories?



Wish you guys would get with the program, I said Wish you guys would get with the program 

Melvyn

[Jim Colton]

I first saw this article when Geoff Shack posted it on his blog and tweeted it, but it's no longer up. Wonder what happened.

GeoffShac Geoff Shackelford
Keiser On Kidd: He Needs Constant Monitoring: Tom Cade files a story on Mike Keiser, the visionary behind Bandon... http://bit.ly/epGrO5

[Michael Whitaker]

If Kiser is quoted accurately in the article, why would he tell the "I'll will fire you today" story to anyone, much less a reporter? That's not something you want to brag about. If I were Kidd I'd be livid!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jim

Its still there second article scroll down to it.

Melvyn

[John Kavanaugh]

Jim

Its still there second article scroll down to it.

Melvyn

Melvyn,

One of my top 100 joys in life is when I see you have commented on Geoff's blog.  Thank you for your input.

[Terry Lavin]

I think Keiser's comments might come across as being harsher than they were when delivered.  I think the point he is making is valid: there are times when a well-informed owner/developer is smart to try to curb the "playfulness" of "excessiveness" of an architect during the construction process.  He certainly has the gravitas to make the assessment; he ain't no Donald Trump.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I'm not surprised Keiser made a comment about the putting surfaces, and the actions he might take if his gca didn't follow his wishes....I'm just surprised he didn't send as card with a poem to better convey his thoughts on that special occaision.

BTW, we are discussing the writer, the comments, etc.  I can't tell the most important thing - are the green (and other features) at the Castle Course really being remodeled to soften the course?  Who will do the work, if so?

[George Pazin]

Terry's interpretation sounds likely to me.

Regarding the Castle Course, sounds like hyperbole to me. I'd guess they're making a few changes and the blogger says they're blowing the course up.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Given this board's love of maintaining an architects original intent, it is actually a fascinating case study to take a modern course, and try to modify it within the original style, while fixing the oft heard complaints at the same time.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Original intent, like it, so check this out

Design is great but its those little missed item that cause the problem and render its next to useless for its original design intent.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6eqpmTLOtI

Melvyn

[Kalen Braley]

For my two cents, I'd have to agree with Terry and Shivas on this one.

What you don't get in the story is any kind of body language, tone of voice, or otherwise.  I'm guessing when he made the comment about DMK, he did so with a sly wink or a barely noticeable grin.

[Charlie Goerges]

What you don't get in the story is any kind of body language, tone of voice, or otherwise.  I'm guessing when he made the comment about DMK, he did so with a sly wink or a barely noticeable grin.

A good writer (and observer) would have been able to give us exactly what you describe Kalen. It may sound harsh, but I don't think the writer did a good job.

I can think of many instances in my own career where similar things have been said to me. Usually by people I like and respect greatly. Out of context they would be mean and harsh.

Also we should bear in mind that the subsequent architects at the resort benefitted from a couple of things that Kidd did not.

a. The generally accepted fact that Mike Keiser grew more tolerant of "wilder" greens over time.

b. They knew what Keiser was looking for ahead of time because there was tangible evidence in the ground as to what that was.

[Peter Pallotta]

David K must be much more of a 'brand' than I realized. The writer goes after him as if he were a Donald Trump or a John Daly, i.e.  seeming to assume that everyone knows about/takes for granted his 'excesses'.  Either that or he's just another golf writer with a deep-seated wish to play the tough guy, which is very funny. Makes me imagine John Wayne prancing around in a Lacoste shirt and Ecco shoes twirling a long putter. 

Peter

[Dan Kelly]

... just another golf writer with a deep-seated wish to play the tough guy, which is very funny. Makes me imagine John Wayne prancing around in a Lacoste shirt and Ecco shoes twirling a long putter. 

Where's Preston Sturges when we need him?

Dead! That's where!

[John Kavanaugh]

When did journalists quit being the smartest guys in the room?  I may be wrong but I have a feeling the profession does not draw the same caliber of person it did in the late 70's.

[Kalen Braley]

When did journalists quit being the smartest guys in the room?  I may be wrong but I have a feeling the profession does not draw the same caliber of person it did in the late 70's.

Jk,

You couldn't be more correct...

All you have to do is fire up MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, etc, etc. to see all the drivel and mindless "common demoninator" pandering they pass off as news or deem worthy of discussion otherwise.

Forget about real news, we all need to know what shade of white the wedding dress will be for the Royal Wedding.    

[Peter Pallotta]

Two funny posts in a row, but I can't figure out why, i.e. why "Dead! That's where!" is so funny (maybe because Dan is trying to slip in an emoticon without anyone noticing); and why "the 70s" makes me laugh so much (maybe because I can't umagine the 70s being the high point of anything, except disco dancing). Anyway, thanks.  

P

[Dan Kelly]

Strangely enough (and completely true!): I looked down from my computer screen, which was displaying this thread, to look at the other thing I've been reading today: a profile of Ana Faris, by Tad Friend, in the 4/11 issue of The New Yorker. And what was THE FIRST LINE I saw on the page where I left off reading:

"Preston Sturges's first rule of the box office, 'A pretty girl is better than an ugly one,' is even truer today when when he decreed it, seventy years ago."

This is also completely true: Journalists were never the smartest guys in the room. Some of them thought they were, and some of them still do -- but that don't make it so....

The really smart ones have all taken buyouts.

[Robert Thompson]

If I recall correctly, Keiser says in Dream Golf that one of the reasons he hired Kidd was that it would be easy to get rid of him if it didn't work out.

I assume few posting here have ever spent time with Keiser. He has a dry sense of humor that some might misunderstand.

However, I also think it is true that Kidd's work following Bandon Dunes hasn't been remarkably well received. That said, David is a delightful person to talk with and a great salesman for his work. He's done very well in the greater scheme of things.