[Mike_Cirba]

The recent discussions of rough, narrow fairways, Royal Melbourne, flat greens on public courses to speed play, and the ever present issue of trees and wooded areas makes me wonder the following:

Is the primary cause of slow play due to searches for wayward golf balls?  I've played any number of courses with interesting strategies and clever greens, and almost never had a painfully slow round...IF, the course featured enough width to accommodate the high handicap player.  

Is the focus on speeding play by flattening greens completely, totally misguided?  After all, haven't we all experienced the very real fact that a poor putter can three putt on the most flaccid of greens?

[Tim_Weiman]

Mike:

I'd say it is only one problem causing slow play.  American golfers have many other bad habits.

[TomSteenstrup]

Sadly, it's not just American golfers that have developed bad habits. Watching people putt here in Denmark can be a nightmare.

The usual routine is:

1) Wait for the other guy
2) Look over you putt from every possible angle
3) Look again
4) Putt, using a very deliberate pre-shot routine
5) Stand still for a couple of minutes and wonder why the ball didn't go in
6) Slowly - in frustration - walk over to the ball and mark it, not forgetting a couple of swear words on how the green is too bumpy
7) Pout

It's pretty obvious they've been watching too much pro golf.

That being said though, the main reason for slow play here is lost balls due to long rough. 90% think long rough is necessary to keep the course challenging. They actually think a course without long rough is too easy and hence boring! The same 90% will spend hours searching for the ball.

Tom

[Craig_Rokke]

I think it has something to do with it. I also think that people
are often not ready to hit their shot when it's their turn.
Some public courses may also put their tee-times a little too close together. And there are scores of other reasons for slow play.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

I have told this story before, but my wife (a hundred plus shooter) and I (I shot low 80's) played RM three times over two days a few years back, and never exceeded 2 hours 45 minutes for the round.  On one round, we teed off just after the ladies league, so they played at least that fast as well.

I think, based on that experience, that RM should be the prototype of a golf course that is both challenging enough to be ranked in the world top 5 by about everybody, and still be fun and fast to play.  I have given it a lot of thought since then.

Certainly, we didn't spend time looking for balls, and that is a huge part of it.  The proximity of most greens and tees, I feel adds to speed of play.  It does take 15-30 seconds per hole to walk to the next tee, and the difference in a longer distance adds at least 10 minutes to a round.

Another factor is that they allow the "trolleys" or pull carts right up on to the collar of the green, which amazed my wife, without ill turf effects.  I think the time of walking from the cart path (in America) or the bottom of the bank elsewhere must add another 30 seconds per hole, if not more.  There goes another 10 minutes.  In America, that cart path is farther away than the nearer toe of slope on older courses like RM, and it seems the larger scale of modern courses adds a few minutes to the round.

Add in that RM usually has you walking ahead, not back or to the side, which allows the next group to play quicker.

All the things Tom mentions may be universal.  But, ther RM greens were anything but easy to putt, and we still played fast.  Lastly, in many casual rounds, playing partners graciously concede the third putt to avoid seeing a grown man cry anyway.

I think Craig hits it on the nose about not being ready to play.  I think cart use, even when allowed anywhere on the course slows down play further.  Not only does your cart partner watch you play, but he waits for you before driving to his ball.  Then, he forgets which tree he lined up on, necessitating a brief search (usually an optimistic 50 yards farther than he actually hit the ball  , and THEN he starts planning the shot, tossing the obligatory sprigs up several times to test the wind, looking for yardage markers, agonizing over a six versus a seven - when it should really be a five or four , and so on.  Then there is the post shot "I didn't really catch it well" when in reality, the seven he chose was the flushest shot of the day, but naturally ended up about twenty yards short!

I always try to drop off my cart partner, if I am a suitable distance away from his shot to get a head start on play, but it's not always possible, and I am sure we are all guilty of this on more than one occaision when playing with carts.

I'll stop venting now, and go to church to pray for the sinners - and slow players, but not necessarily in that order!

[Matt_Ward]

Slow play is shaped not by the players -- but by the management of the facility.

If management takes a very consistent and comprehensive view of slow play you will have movement from the players. Remember -- allow the inmates to run the asylum and you have one word -- CHAOS!

Slow play is nothing more than a "talking point" for most ownership at any golf course. It was pointed out on a previous answer in this thread about tee times. No course can have 8 minutes intervals with your average American foursome on a busy Saturday / Sunday. Management needs to be realistic about creating a meaningful and realistic pace of play. If you had a minimum of 10 minutes you would not have the gridlock patterns you often see. Also, what about effective training of course personnel and having them staioned at points on the course where play habitually stalls?

Another management no-no. If you mandate carts then you must provide access to the fairways for the players. Cart path only only adds to the lugging of clubs back and forth on every hole.

The other aspect is management's desire to "milk" the players with the movie theater approach. Management sends out carts with all the goodies and before you now it you have a walking cocktailk party on the course. Are we there for the golf or the goodies? When I go to the movies the primary things is the film.

Players get their sense of "what's important" by the consistent actions of management. If management allows it you can be sure it will happen. Just look at what happens (or does not happen I should say) across the pond. The management at nearly all the facilities overseas do not put with the crawl and have no hesitation in letting you know you need to pick up the pace.

One last item -- I agree w Mike Cirba in that how the course is set up will influence play and therefore excessive rough and narrow fairways are usually ill-considered. Allow the greatness of the course to shine through by allowing the width of the landing areas to increase the strategies in playing any hole. Mike, I also agree w you in that you don't have to "dumb-down" the challenge of putting surfaces to accomplish the task in speeding up play.

[Tyler Kearns]

Mike,
       searching for balls on the golf course is a major factor in slow play. of course, it is only part of the problem, which could be improved immensely if everybody adhered to the notion of "ready-golf".
       as far as searching for balls is concerned, architects must provide adequately wide fairways for the difficulty of the shots required. however, they must not fall into the formulated trap of assessing a perscribed width which relates to a certain hole yardage. the corridor for a hole can be made more accomodating without substantial clearing by clearing the underbrush which causes so many lost balls. let trees be a obstacle, not a stroke and distance penalty.
          

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