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Brian_Ewen

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Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« on: April 19, 2011, 12:18:33 PM »
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0419/1224294977081.html

Rough, wild Madrid a real frontrunner
WE ARE standing on an elevated piece of terrain on the outskirts of Madrid, a place known as Tres Cantos to be precise. Robin Hiseman, an English golf course designer, is talking about the natural beauty of the site which is one of those bidding to play host to the 2018 Ryder Cup when he is interrupted by the appearance overhead of an eagle which hovers momentarily before flying off to do whatever such birds of prey do. Nevertheless, it is a moment worthy of catching your breath.

The brief silence which follows as we watch the eagle fly away from the spot, known as The Pulpit and due to be the second tee on the course, allows everyone to soak in what lies below: a rough, wild, undulating terrain with the smell of thyme and lavender capturing the senses. This is a course that has yet to be built, and, yet, the wildness of the place, is one reason why Madrid is very much considered one of the frontrunners for hosting the Ryder Cup in seven years.

The decision will be made in London on May 17th, just ahead of next month’s BMW PGA Championship at Wentworth, and the five contenders are: France – Le Golf National (Albatross Course), Paris; Germany – The Audi Course, Wittelsbach Rohrenfeld, near Munich; Netherlands – The Dutch, Spijk, near Gorinchem; Portugal – Herade da Comporta Golf Resort on the Alentejo coast, near Lisbon; and Spain – Club de Campo Tres Cantos, Madrid.

Bro Hof Slott in Sweden, which was part of the original bidding process, withdrew its application in midstream. This is the first formal bid process undertaken by Ryder Cup Europe, one that started at the end of 2008. Richard Hills, the Ryder Cup director, has called it a “hugely challenging and stimulating process” which involved site visits to all of the potential candidates and, perhaps a sign of the times, a requirement of all five countries to sign what were called Conditional Host Agreements which means that, when the 2018 host venue is named next month, it becomes a fully binding legal contract.

The successful country will be entering into a multi-faceted agreement, lasting a minimum of 12 years which involves backing tournaments on the main tour, the Challenge Tour and the Seniors Tour in that time span. It’s a big commitment, with the hope that the Ryder Cup itself and the legacy of staging the event will reap its own rewards.

There is no course, yet, in Madrid. In fact, the French bid – with its choice of venue in Paris a host venue for the French Open for every year bar one since 2000 – is the only course built and with any tournament tradition.

The Dutch course, designed by Colin Montgomerie, is seeded and near ready to play, but the Spanish, Portuguese and German bids are in the blueprint stage and ready to proceed.

The Madrid bid is one that could have the analogy of a dark horse which comes late on the inside rails. It has a lot going for it, not just the obvious enthusiasm of everyone involved in it but also an unspoilt location – yet close to the teeming metropolis of Madrid with access to transport infrastructure that includes trains and motorways to the heart of the city inside half-an-hour’s drive – that is currently home to sheep and cattle and also used for pursuits such as hiking and mountain biking.

Hiseman, who works for European Golf Design, has adopted a minimalist approach towards earth moving in an attempt to retain the character of the natural terrain on this site 19 kilometres north of Madrid. Want a comparison? Some 400,000 cubic metres of earth was moved to create the 18th hole alone at Celtic Manor; here, Hiseman envisages a project that will involve total earth moving of 200,000 cubic metres.

“We are only going to move earth if we have to. For the most part, we will follow the natural contours and preserve the indigenous vegetation outside of the playing corridors.

“It is not untypical for a new championship golf course, developed on agricultural or ex-industrial land, to require an earth moving volume of several million cubic metres to reshape and sculpt the land for the purposes of an attractive golfscape . . . (at Tres Cantos), we will move just 200,000 cubic metres and that is mostly accounted for by the construction of the lakes in which we have to store our irrigation water.

This is a Ryder Cup venue that has the preservation and enhancement of the natural environment at the very core of its ethos,” explained Hiseman. He added: “Our design has already passed a rigorous Environmental Impact Assessment and our innovative water capture and recycling scheme quite literally defies gravity to ensure that we get the most out of every drop of rain water.” In what he calls the “soul” of the course, the final five holes, Hiseman has also used a natural amphitheatre to create a par three 16th late in the round to be known as The Bull Ring and which will be able to accommodate 25,000 spectators. The idea is to recreate the atmosphere similar to that of the 17th at the Phoenix Open.

Joining us as we negotiate the terrain in 4x4s and on foot is Gonzalo Fernandez-Castano. “It’s my first time seeing it, and I like it. I can already see the holes. We can make what we want of this. It could be a beautiful, well-treed course but, for a Ryder Cup, we would need it to be open and it would be superb. The crowds would love it,” remarked the Spanish golfer.

And, as we look down towards the shepherd herding his sheep on what will be the 10th hole, and across to the snow-peaked Sierra Guadarrama mountains in the distance, it is hard to believe that this land – found after a series of sites were looked at by the bidding committee – is so close to Madrid and yet retains a ruggedness at odds with a major city. “We unashamedly wanted to create an old fashioned course, very different to the style of (previous) venues. We hope it is appealing to the Ryder Cup committee,” observed Hiseman.

One way or another, and regardless of whether Tres Cantos gets the nod, the Hiseman course will be built. As Gonzaga Escauriaza, the president of the Spanish Golf Federation put it, “we honestly believe we cannot produce a finer bid. This site cannot be bettered. We cannot get it closer to the city. We cannot find so many (hotel) rooms near the course. We cannot offer a better course. We are strong supporters of the European Tour, with seven events this year and many every year. How can we better this? I do not know.”

RYDER CUP 2018: THE CANDIDATES

France
Le Golf National,
Albatross Course, Paris

 
One of the first stadium courses in Europe, the National has played host to the French Open 10 of the past 11 years dating back to when Colin Montgomerie won there in 2000. Ironically, Monty – designer of the Dutch course – has stated publicly that Paris is likely to get the 2018 nomination.

Soccer player Patrick Vieira and England rugby player Johnny Wilkinson are among sportsmen from other codes to have backed the Paris bid. The French Federation has promised to build 100 driving ranges and as many short courses (par threes) around the country to develop golf as part of the Ryder Cup’s legacy.

Germany
The Audi Course,
near Munich

 
The German car manufacturer is financing the construction of this proposed course, and it also has the backing of Wittelsbacher Ausleichsfonds (the investment company of the former royal family in Bavaria). The location is approximately 80km from Munich, with German architect Thomas Himmel pencilled in as course designer. Bernhard Langer has been to the fore in promoting the bid.

Netherlands
The Dutch, Spijk


Considered the real outsider in the market, the Dutch is a Colin Montgomerie “signature” course co-designed by Ross McMurray of European Golf Design, who was responsible for remodelling Celtic Manor ahead of last year’s event. Its location close to Amsterdam is a plus, but, with no Ryder Cup history in the country, it may be left waiting.

Portugal
Herade da Comporta Links,
Alentejo coast

 
A project with serious intent, with a Tom Fazio-designed course (his first in Europe) in conjunction with Ross McMurray of European Golf Design and backed by the financial clout of the Espirito Santo Group. The course, to be developed as part of a three-course resort on the Alentejo coast, approximately an hour south of Lisbon, has a spectacular setting overlooking the Atlantic. Has the backing of Real Madrid manager Jose Mourinho, who hails from nearby Setubal, into the bargain.

Spain
Tres Cantos,
Madrid

 
Designed with the Ryder Cup in mind on a site north of Madrid, with immediate access of transport infrastructure (the train stations are within walking distance to the course), this bid has gathered steam in recent months and could be the closest runner to favourites Paris. Has the backing of Seve Ballesteros as well as Athletic Madrid and Real Madrid.

David_Tepper

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2011, 12:40:56 PM »
Brian -

Thanks for posting. Best of luck to Robin H. with this project. Ryder Cup or not, it sounds like a winner.

DT

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2011, 01:58:49 AM »
Brian -

Thanks for posting. Best of luck to Robin H. with this project. Ryder Cup or not, it sounds like a winner.

DT

Agreed.


I've asked this before but no one answers.  Each time a recent European Ryder Cup venue is refferred to, people will say they' bought' it, often implying that the K Club and Celtic Manor were the highest bidders. Can anyone expalin that part of the deal.  Is this Quote the price?

"The successful country will be entering into a multi-faceted agreement, lasting a minimum of 12 years which involves backing tournaments on the main tour, the Challenge Tour and the Seniors Tour in that time span. It’s a big commitment, with the hope that the Ryder Cup itself and the legacy of staging the event will reap its own rewards."

Also who is the agreement made with?  The quote refers to the country and anecdotallly people refer to the course.  If the quote is correct then the price associated with a bid is the same for all, no?


Let's make GCA grate again!

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2011, 03:10:05 AM »
Tony - what makes 2018 different is that for the first time there has been an open and, theoretically, transparent bidding process. The Celtic Manor and K Club Ryder Cups were agreed in a rather more behind-closed-doors fashion. On the other hand, the open process has taken a hell of a long tiime and been hugely expensive, so I wouldn't necessarily assume it will continue in this fashion.

I believe - although Robin will correct me when he sees this if I'm wrong - that the bids have to be submitted by the national golf association to the Ryder Cup board, which is essentially controlled by the European Tour. Money is, without doubt, a huge part of it, but it's not necessarily a case of slamming down a large wodge of cash. If you take Celtic Manor, the premise behind the bid was to elevate golf in Wales throughout the years leading up to the Cup. This meant a guarantee that the bid consortium, which involved Celtic Manor and the Welsh government, would support a certain number of tournaments on the main tour, the senior tour and the LET. It was effective too - if anyone ever has chance to hear Roger Pride, who's the Welsh government's main marketing guy, present on the effects of the RC on Welsh tourism, you will find it very interesting. Essentially they have built a substantial golf tourism sector from basically nothing, and the Ryder Cup was the catalyst that enabled it to happen. To that end, as Philip (who was on the same trip to Tres Cantos that I attended earlier in the year) correctly points out in his piece, the fact that Spain is such an important venue for the Tour has to count in their favour. They may need it: the authorities say that the Valderrama RC is not a factor and each bid starts from a clean slate, but the reaction from France and Germany if Spain gets the cup again before it has gone anywhere else on the Continent will not be positive.

The decision is due next month. I've seen the Portuguese and Spanish projects first hand, and I've been to Golf National too. Personally I hope it goes to Madrid, partly because I think it's the most suitable, but also because Robin is a mate and he's been telling me for over a year how great the course is going to be (and now I've seen the site, I agree with him, it is full of epic holes), and I really want him to get the chance to build it.

Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2011, 06:13:35 AM »
And, of course, the fact that other than Spain, none of the other countries has hosted an RC makes it inevitable that Spain does not get it. Portugal needs a financial shot in the torso, Netherlands and Germany are growing golf venues, France kinda got screwed by London for that other international event. I love Madrid and Spain but don't see them as the front-runner, from an outside-the-loop perspective.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Scott Warren

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2011, 06:37:54 AM »
Tricks,

I'm not sure the RC committee is out to give a "shot in the torso" to a struggling bid country.

Madrid presents the best combination of climate/weather, finances, golfing history and the promise of a fantastic golf course unlike those we have come to expect from European RC hosts.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2011, 06:42:42 AM »
My guess is the RC will go to whoever puts the most into the coffers.
Cave Nil Vino

Kalen Braley

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Mike_Clayton

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 06:17:24 PM »
Mark,

That is exactly where the RC will go - it is zero to do with the course.
It is hard to beleive the French will not get it given how much money they have put into the French Open.
It is a pity the course is not remotely recognizable as French - unlike Chantilly and surrounds which could only be in France.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 07:56:30 PM »
Scott,

Thank you. I believe that, given the knowledge of all Welshfolk that the RC dates of 2009 were perfect for rain would lead the RC folks in the future to consider better dates, regardless of the country. While the sh!tty weather certainly favors the Euros, it doesn't help at the gate and with sales, so my guess is that proper selection of dates will eliminate issues with any other countries.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2011, 01:54:42 AM »
Mike and Mark I'm afraid you're comments are typical but they don't offer any real insight, a bit like a tabloid headline.  Reading the article and from Adam's comments, unless you know different, all these countries are making the same bid, a Venue plus support for other events.  Do you know if one of them is offering more support than the others?  The important point is not that the venue that wins bid highest, but that the tour set a very pricey entry bar.  Very few courses can fit the requiremnts of hosting a Ryder Cup and certainly none of the existing classics. Any disdain for the process needs to be directed at the tour and not the winning course. I suspect the Tour is quite happy the way we complain about the Belfry, K Club and Celtic Manor when its them we should be criticising.


Mark are you implying that there might be something going on to interest inspector Knacker?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 01:56:19 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2011, 03:55:28 AM »
Tony not at all just best bid wins. I'm sure if we struck oil at the end of the practise ground we could win the RC!
Cave Nil Vino

Mark Alexander

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2011, 01:21:19 PM »
Interesting chat, but I notice that The Dutch entry (The Dutch) hasn't been mentioned much.
Given the bid has secured commitments from six premier sponsors must be plus point, certainly if the money factor has the casting vote.
The course is pretty interesting too - http://www.markalexanderphotography.co.uk/TheDutch/ - especially considering the soft, sponge-like site it was built on.
These shots were taken at the start of April. Some of the greens are less than a year old.

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2011, 07:14:13 PM »
And here I was thinking that the German course would be the worst of the lot, but those Dutch chocolate drop mounds sure make me nervous :)

I hope it goes to France, Le Golf National is an interesting course, which has proved its mettle in many exciting tournaments. Our German effort is pitiful, although I would never count out the wealthiest country of the bunch (in terms of how much money is spent on golf). However, the candidacy effort itself seems a bit short on cash and has no real political backing, but there's no denying that the golf market itself is huge here.

Ulrich
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 07:16:11 PM by Ulrich Mayring »
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Niall C

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2011, 10:27:01 AM »
Tony - what makes 2018 different is that for the first time there has been an open and, theoretically, transparent bidding process. The Celtic Manor and K Club Ryder Cups were agreed in a rather more behind-closed-doors fashion. On the other hand, the open process has taken a hell of a long tiime and been hugely expensive, so I wouldn't necessarily assume it will continue in this fashion.

I believe - although Robin will correct me when he sees this if I'm wrong - that the bids have to be submitted by the national golf association to the Ryder Cup board, which is essentially controlled by the European Tour. Money is, without doubt, a huge part of it, but it's not necessarily a case of slamming down a large wodge of cash. If you take Celtic Manor, the premise behind the bid was to elevate golf in Wales throughout the years leading up to the Cup. This meant a guarantee that the bid consortium, which involved Celtic Manor and the Welsh government, would support a certain number of tournaments on the main tour, the senior tour and the LET. It was effective too - if anyone ever has chance to hear Roger Pride, who's the Welsh government's main marketing guy, present on the effects of the RC on Welsh tourism, you will find it very interesting. Essentially they have built a substantial golf tourism sector from basically nothing, and the Ryder Cup was the catalyst that enabled it to happen. To that end, as Philip (who was on the same trip to Tres Cantos that I attended earlier in the year) correctly points out in his piece, the fact that Spain is such an important venue for the Tour has to count in their favour. They may need it: the authorities say that the Valderrama RC is not a factor and each bid starts from a clean slate, but the reaction from France and Germany if Spain gets the cup again before it has gone anywhere else on the Continent will not be positive.

The decision is due next month. I've seen the Portuguese and Spanish projects first hand, and I've been to Golf National too. Personally I hope it goes to Madrid, partly because I think it's the most suitable, but also because Robin is a mate and he's been telling me for over a year how great the course is going to be (and now I've seen the site, I agree with him, it is full of epic holes), and I really want him to get the chance to build it.



Adam,

Interesting stuff. I think I'm right in saying that Scotland (Gleneagles) got the Ryder Cup on the same basis. If thats the case I'm wondering quite what they are going to do to promote Scottish Golf. Scotland is indeed blessed with a lot of great courses but precious few visitors tend to play anything other than the Open venues and a few courses once name dropped by Tom Watson.

Knowing Visit Scotland, it will be more pictures of mountains heather and the Old Course. Not very imaginative. I could be wrong but their track record doesn't bode well.

Niall

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2011, 11:56:12 AM »
Interesting chat, but I notice that The Dutch entry (The Dutch) hasn't been mentioned much.
Given the bid has secured commitments from six premier sponsors must be plus point, certainly if the money factor has the casting vote.
The course is pretty interesting too - http://www.markalexanderphotography.co.uk/TheDutch/ - especially considering the soft, sponge-like site it was built on.
These shots were taken at the start of April. Some of the greens are less than a year old.

I think the Dutch bid is a long odds outsider. I can't see beyond France or Spain myself, probably, sadly, France.

One of the intriguing things about this bid process is the long arm of IMG. They are 50 per cent shareholders in EGD, so that gives them connections with three of the five bids, and they are also the promoters for the French bid. Which is why so many IMG players, including Monty, have been bigging up France. And that brings me back to The Dutch... if your signature designer has publicly backed a competing bid, it doesn't bode well for your chances....
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ryder Cup 2018 : The Candidates
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2011, 11:58:37 AM »
And here I was thinking that the German course would be the worst of the lot, but those Dutch chocolate drop mounds sure make me nervous :)

I hope it goes to France, Le Golf National is an interesting course, which has proved its mettle in many exciting tournaments. Our German effort is pitiful, although I would never count out the wealthiest country of the bunch (in terms of how much money is spent on golf). However, the candidacy effort itself seems a bit short on cash and has no real political backing, but there's no denying that the golf market itself is huge here.

Ulrich

The real problem for Germany is the Audi connection, given the extremely close and very long standing relationship the Tour has had with BMW.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.