My day at the Masters

[BCrosby]

I was at the Masters yesterday. My wife had a foot operation recently, so between letting her sit whenever possible and serving as her crutch as we walked gingerly from spot to spot, we saw less of the course than usual. But let me make a couple of observations:

- To confirm my memory of the 13th, the older trees at the corner still set the fw width. Newer trees are mostly fill-ins, making viewing the scene much more difficult while having little impact on play that wasn't already provided by the older trees. There are some new trees on the left side of the creek just off the tee, but they are not in play for the Masters field.

- Overall, I didn't see many new changes to ANGC.

- The young bombers - Johnson, Quiros, Woodland, Vegas, Watson and others - now play the course not unlike the way Tiger played it circa 1997. For example, Watson hit a 7 or 8 iron second shot into 13 yesterday. Woodland is going to be a hell of a player. Love his swing.

- ANGC owns a lot of property around the course borders. It also has unlimited capital resources. It would not be inconceivable that we get another round of lengthening. Interior tees they can't do much about at this point. They are maxed out. But it is at least theoretically possible to lengthen even farther a number of holes.

- Because of my wife's limited mobility we spent a fair amount of time at the new practice area. Magnificent. Best about it is the use of trees in the long shot landing areas. There are two main corridors for tee shots set up by stands of pines. I watched a number of players use the trees to shape shots. As much as trees are over-used on golf courses, it occurred to me that they are under-used on practice ranges. They make wonderful, highly visible targets that invite hitting a variety of shots.

- More than ever I think the 2nd and the 8th are under-rated par 5's. Together with 13 and 15, ANGC has the best set of 5's in golf. I saw a wide spread of scoring on all of them, a sign of great strategic designs. BTW, there were lots of balls in Rae's Creek on 13 for the hour we were there.

- No one does a golf tournament better than ANGC. However unhappy I am about the new trees and rough, it is always a great day. We hated getting back on the road at the end of the day, my wife's sore foot notwithstanding.

Bob

[Chip Gaskins]

Bob

No need for the club to keep buying up half of the town around the course.  Augusta National is the perfect position to institute a Masters tournament ball.  No need to lengthen the course, just have everyone play the same (shorter) specification, brand of their choosing, ball.  The USGA won't do it, the R&A won't do it, but Augusta is a very unique position to be able to do it.  You think any player would skip the event, not likely.

[Bill_McBride]

It'll never happen, Chip.  That genie stays in the bottle.

[Mark Chaplin]

Chip - I've thought this for some time, ANGC can easily make the ball makers reduce the compression but still provide a Pro V1 or whatever. Neither the players or their sponsors would allow the players to skip the Masters.

Bob - Pleased you had an enjoyable day and saw the play and course from a different perspective. Having met the lovely Betsy over dinner with Nicky at The Maybury we wish her a quick recovery. Any plans for a return visit?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Chip, your argument's premise is flawed.

Without a Masters ball the course must continue to be lengthened. As the course is lengthened, the telecasts will have to be lengthened. To avoid dead air when Tiger is walking from one shot to another, CBS will be forced to show more shots by non-Tiger golfers. So far they've been able to fill the gaps with speculation over Tiger's next shot, multiple angles of his previous shot, and up to date analysis of his round thus far, but this will become impossible as rounds exceed 6 hours.

All true golf fans should root for ANGC to continue the golfication of Augusta.

Bob, I couldn't get my wife w/in 50 miles of that place with two good feet. Yours clearly is of finer stock. But maybe it's just the golf in my marriage dynamic.

[RJ_Daley]

I don't know if it is just my perception distorted by TV, but with the newer trees maturing, it seems to me that from viewing the TV fly-overs that some of the  tee shots are continue to narrow to mere bowling alleys or chutes.  Coupled with the rough, and the stark mulch around most of the newer trees, the only thing that still seems appealing to me would be approach shots of less than 150 yards to the still amazing greens.  The golf course of stark playing corridor definition via the two decades of change just don't appeal to me as a place I'd love to play, even from 6200 yards. 

Yes, it was done to meet the increased length and skills enhanced by great modern equipment, so that the competition would remain intense and compelling for the elite tournament players.  Some of the great shots in recent years are the ones that have to be played as 'escape artist' shots threaded between pines and other trees, rather than beautiful and graceful swings struck by swing artists that are all about positioning the ball in stance, adjusting swing and balance to flight an approach to deal with the green contours and foregreen ground contours.  Don't get me wrong, I still see that ball flight and being able to shape shots are part of the test of golf there.  But, those tests seem to come from being contorted in jail, more so than choices off the tee to find fairway places that vary widely and have many strategic considerations to select to play to position and then approach based on ones ball striking strong suit skills. 

But, as a place to enjoy a game of golf for a average ability golfing joe... based on confinement to play to specific demanding landing areas off the tees and confinement to a smaller number of places one can play into greens from, I can think of a 100 courses I'd personally rather play.  Of course that is all conjecture because only .0001% of average joe golfer will ever play there. 

I haven't heard any comment by telecasters-commentators mention pine pollen this year.  Is it a low pollen year, and not so many players and patrons suffering allergies?  It does look like one of the most consistently beautiful weather related Masters in recent memory.  It is nice that folks like Bob and his wife can have a great day there among the beauty of the place.

[Mark Pritchett]

...I can think of a 100 courses I'd personally rather play. 

Care to list them? 

[JC Jones]

RJ Daley,

Talk about being obnoxious to try and prove a point.  Have you ever been to ANGC?

I was there Wednesday, it is not a narrow golf course.  Not even a little bit.

[Adam Clayman]

JC,. Dick is just stating an opinion from the vantage point that he's been given., Do you have the facts, or personal experience to help illuminate to Dick where his perspective isn't a proper one? Perhaps pointing out where his conclusions are wrong, the way a proper discussion should? Or, Are you interested in squashing opinion? Perhaps you are the one who's being obnoxious?

[JR Potts]

I was there Wednesday, it is not a narrow golf course.  Not even a little bit.

I was there on Thursday and Friday and agree 100 percent...sans 18.  And while 18 isn't as narrow as it looks on TV, it is certainly a strange and tight driving hole.

[JC Jones]

JC,. Dick is just stating an opinion from the vantage point that he's been given., Do you have the facts, or personal experience to help illuminate to Dick where his perspective isn't a proper one? Perhaps pointing out where his conclusions are wrong, the way a proper discussion should? Or, Are you interested in squashing opinion? Perhaps you are the one who's being obnoxious?

Yes, Adam, I've been there.  Unlike most everyone on this board who is criticizing the narrowness, the rough, the angles, etc., I've actually been there.  You have no clue what ANGC is about, feels like or potentially plays like until you've walked the golf course and seen the property.

His comment about there being 100 golf courses he'd rather play than ANGC is so crazy it isn't worth arguing.  It is the product of sour grapes and very little more.

[Terry Lavin]

JC,. Dick is just stating an opinion from the vantage point that he's been given., Do you have the facts, or personal experience to help illuminate to Dick where his perspective isn't a proper one? Perhaps pointing out where his conclusions are wrong, the way a proper discussion should? Or, Are you interested in squashing opinion? Perhaps you are the one who's being obnoxious?

Yes, Adam, I've been there.  Unlike most everyone on this board who is criticizing the narrowness, the rough, the angles, etc., I've actually been there.  You have no clue what ANGC is about, feels like or potentially plays like until you've walked the golf course and seen the property.

His comment about there being 100 golf courses he'd rather play than ANGC is so crazy it isn't worth arguing.  It is the product of sour grapes and very little more.

I've been there and will agree that it's not narrow, especially where I would hit the ball!  There certainly are holes where they've pinched landing areas for the pros, but you only get a feeling of confinement on a couple holes, primarily off the tee.

I think what Dick is saying that the course isn't his cup of tea and that he'll be happy not to play it.  I completely disagree, because it's on my short list, but I say "to each his own".  My desire to play ANGC is probably based mostly on my three decades of watching the toonamint on television.  To play the holes where Arnie, Jack, Tiger, Phil and others have hit so many great shots is a thrilling prospect.

[RJ_Daley]

JC, my opening sentence was a pretty clear caveat, 'it seems to me':

"I don't know if it is just my perception distorted by TV, but with the newer trees maturing, it seems to me that from viewing the TV fly-overs that some of the  tee shots are continue to narrow to mere bowling alleys or chutes."

 I hope you aren't going to pull a MacWood on me now and deride me for expressing an opinion, like I did with 'my perception and understanding of Bendelow's impact on the development of golf.  No, I haven't been to ANGC.  I have heard for years how one can not possibly get an understanding of the elevations and scope of the course from TV.  I accept that.  I just know that in my years of watching the toon-a-mint, there are way more shots having to be executed from jail, and narrowed FWs and rough are a factor.  Heck, we had that discussion on GCA for years.  A decade ago, we had many lengthy discussions, led as I recall by Geoff Shackelford about the abandonment of the Jones-MacKenzie design vision that approximated or called some of the playing characteristics of 'the Old Course'.  And, that is my preference.  I acknowledge that such a course on ANGC property would be a such a birdie fest had the changes not been made that probably 30 under would be winning score now.  

But, please leave me to my preferences, regardless of if you think I'm crazy.  I would put ANGC circa late 1930s or the post WWII course on a list I'd greatly prefer to play than this version.  I don't play golf at 7400 yards!  I don't care to play at 6700 yards.  I'm an old fart.  My  preference is a course that has more interest in width, contour, and fun.  So, who the hell are you to tell me if I have a 100 other courses I'd prefer to play than ANGC at this point, I'm obnoxious? I don't presume to tell you which courses you must dream of playing or are crazy if you don't think so.

Now back to watching, as Tiger just hit a monster drawing ball using some of that foregreen contour, to back pin on 8 and make his eagle!!!    Enjoy...

[Mark Bourgeois]

Outside a "normal" range, width does not carry an absolute value; assignment of value requires the context provided by the greens (and the hole locations of the day).

The club narrowed a number of holes on both the tournament and member courses to the point where they eliminated the strategies available to golfers from tee to green, strategies made available by the context of the greens and / or hole locations. In some cases, the removal of width eliminated the optimal strategy.

IMHO.

[Mark Chaplin]

I've yet to visit Augusta but I'm sure I'll do so one day, it does look narrow in places however a mate posted some pictures on Facebook today of Hankley Common and it looked really narrow. Knowing Hankley well I know the pictures are an illusion of narrowness.

[Ben Sims]

JC,

Ever been to Pine Valley?  I seem to recall a similar comment in regards to its playing corridors.   Let me just warn you now, it's tighter than Hootie Johnson's bank account.  Just like the pictures suggest.  Don't bother playing it.

[JC Jones]

Ben,

You do your thing and I'll do mine?

You find a quote from me saying there were 100 courses I'd rather play than Pine Valley and I'll pay your initiation at Palmetto.

[Ben Sims]

Ben,

You do your thing and I'll do mine?

You find a quote from me saying there were 100 courses I'd rather play than Pine Valley and I'll pay your initiation at Palmetto.

JC,

Just seemed that you had gone a little "thread police-y" on RJ. over his opinion   Before you unload, I'll back away.  Enjoy the thread.

[JC Jones]

Ben,

You're trying too hard.

[Ben Sims]

JC,

You're a lousy softball player.

[JC Jones]

JC,

You're a lousy softball player.

Softball is a woman's game.

[Ben Sims]

JC,

You're a lousy softball player.

Softball is a woman's game.

Blasphemy!  Show me a woman that can hit one to the outfield fence but stops at second to enjoy the keg.  Softball is a man's game!

Except for that fastpitch crap. That's for girls. 

[JC Jones]

Blasphemy!  Show me a woman that can hit one to the outfield fence but stops at second to enjoy the keg.  Softball is a man's game!

Except for that fastpitch crap. That's for girls. 

This is the funniest thing I've read on this site.  Unless, of course, you're serious.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JC, my opening sentence was a pretty clear caveat, 'it seems to me':

"I don't know if it is just my perception distorted by TV, but with the newer trees maturing, it seems to me that from viewing the TV fly-overs that some of the  tee shots are continue to narrow to mere bowling alleys or chutes."

RJ, # 7, 11 and 18 have a chute like appearance, maybe # 17 from the back tee, but, other than that, the DZ's are wide.
# 7 is probably the narrowest DZ's

 I hope you aren't going to pull a MacWood on me now and deride me for expressing an opinion, like I did with 'my perception and understanding of Bendelow's impact on the development of golf.  No, I haven't been to ANGC.  I have heard for years how one can not possibly get an understanding of the elevations and scope of the course from TV.  

I accept that.  I just know that in my years of watching the toon-a-mint, there are way more shots having to be executed from jail, and narrowed FWs and rough are a factor.

They're not that much of a factor.
Being a major and pressure are more of a factor.
Those fairways are still very wide 

Heck, we had that discussion on GCA for years.  A decade ago, we had many lengthy discussions, led as I recall by Geoff Shackelford about the abandonment of the Jones-MacKenzie design vision that approximated or called some of the playing characteristics of 'the Old Course'.  And, that is my preference.  I acknowledge that such a course on ANGC property would be a such a birdie fest had the changes not been made that probably 30 under would be winning score now.

Without the changes, the course would not offer the challenges necessary for the tournament to be considered a Major or even a competitive event. 

But, please leave me to my preferences, regardless of if you think I'm crazy.  I would put ANGC circa late 1930s or the post WWII course on a list I'd greatly prefer to play than this version.  I don't play golf at 7400 yards!  I don't care to play at 6700 yards.  


It's a GREAT course for you at 6,700.
Maybe a little beyond your ability, but, a great challenge that you would have fun trying to meet

I'm an old fart.

The Sarge and I certainly agree on that 

My  preference is a course that has more interest in width, contour, and fun.  


RJ, please stop, you're starting to sound like the other cretins.
ANGC is a very WIDE golf course, with tremendous contour that's fun to play

So, who the hell are you to tell me if I have a 100 other courses I'd prefer to play than ANGC at this point, I'm obnoxious?


Obnoxious, ?  NO.  Deranged, definitely 

I don't presume to tell you which courses you must dream of playing or are crazy if you don't think so.

Now back to watching, as Tiger just hit a monster drawing ball using some of that foregreen contour, to back pin on 8 and make his eagle!!!    Enjoy...

[Matthew Rose]

- More than ever I think the 2nd and the 8th are under-rated par 5's. Together with 13 and 15, ANGC has the best set of 5's in golf. I saw a wide spread of scoring on all of them, a sign of great strategic designs. BTW, there were lots of balls in Rae's Creek on 13 for the hour we were there.

I really enjoy watching the 8th hole especially.... it's kind of an odd hole. It is certainly rare to see a par-five without any bunkers or water at the green. But all sorts of things can happen there.... we see Eldrick make 3 but a lot of the top guys struggled to par it today.