[Terry Lavin]

I like this reductive process, because it deselects courses according to your inherent biases.  I'm a sucker for aesthetics and ambience.  The courses that did the best in those categories are courses that I would happily play every day for the rest of my life.  I can't say that I would dread regularly playing their negatively rated counterparts, but I can easily say that they wouldn't bring nearly the same amount of pleasure.  As a committed sybarite, the pleasure meter must be moved for me to want to be a real recidivist.

[Jim Colton]

John,

 I agree with you completely, which is why I trying to argue for the change. I don't see conditioning as all that important (certainly not 12.5% of greatness), but it can't enhance or detract from the design and I believe that's how it should factor in. I haven't played Fishers, but from what I can gather Mr. Beck has the conditioning is perfectly in sync with the design principles and objectives of the course.

[jonathan_becker]

I know Oakmont isn't going to win any beauty contests, but last in aesthetics?  

It must go to show that there's a lot of beautiful places to play golf in America.

[Terry Lavin]

I know Oakmont isn't going to win any beauty contests, but last in aesthetics?  

It must go to show that there's a lot of beautiful places to play golf in America.

I dunno, Oakmont could be accurately described as a treeless torture chamber bisected by a turnpike.  I can see how it could get marked down for aesthetics.

Don't get me wrong, there's something beguiling about the treeless vistas and the inviting look of the demonic greens, but I don't think that the word pretty comes to mind.  I'll be a better judge of it when I play it for the first time this summer, as a good friend recently joined.  Can't wait.

[Jim Colton]

I know Oakmont isn't going to win any beauty contests, but last in aesthetics?  

It must go to show that there's a lot of beautiful places to play golf in America.

Jonathan,

  Oakmont is lowest in terms of Aesthetics relative to its total score.  It could be low simply because it's high in everything else. Oakmont is 27th overall in Aesthetics (8.16).

[jonathan_becker]

Judge,

It's pretty cool playing golf up on the hill at Oakmont.  I would give it votes for the extended view.

Jim,

Gotcha.

[Jerry Kluger]

I keep looking for Sand Hills in the top 10 in any of those categories - am I missing it or am I missing something when I consider it top 10 in a number of the categories?

[John Kavanaugh]

I keep looking for Sand Hills in the top 10 in any of those categories - am I missing it or am I missing something when I consider it top 10 in a number of the categories?

All that means is that Sand Hills is so perfectly balanced that no one category helps or hurts in a meaningful way.

[JC Jones]

I don't think people are understanding these numbers.  This isn't a ranking of the top courses in each category.  This is showing what percentage of their total score was due to each of these categories.

John K is right, you don't see many of the greats on these lists because they do well in ALL categories and don't rely on one to move them up or down.

[Eric Smith]

Eric, I'm not sure Ron has ever lost an argument.

Ah...I see.

You mentioned Forest Dunes earlier. Surely there are other golf courses less worthy to be included than this one? It won Digest's best new private a few years back.* I played 4 rounds there in 07 and loved it. We played Arcadia Bluffs on the same trip, yet it didn't do much for me.  At Forest Dunes you won't find the quirky greens many here on gca yearn for, but it would seem they were designed with the ground game in mind, eg open entrances where you can putt from off the green. Yes, the maintenance is incredibly good and is usually mentioned when folks talk or write about the course as that is part of the equation for a lot of folks when describing golf courses. The turf, much like what I more recently experienced at Merion, was as hard and fast as any non-fescue surface I have played on. Neat property with a solid routing too going in and out of the forest with the more open dunesy areas on the back. I recall Doak saying that Weiskopf's greens were flat, but I wouldn't at all equate that to mean boring, at least not in this case.  From a pure joy to putt factor, I felt the quality of the surface and the speed at which they maintained them were in perfect harmony and as good as I've seen.

Looking at this new Top 100 list, I'd rather return to play Forest Dunes over the following:

30. The Honors
35. Victoria National
41. TPC Sawgrass (barely hanging on at no.98 in 2005? The only diff. between then and now would be maintenance, am I right?)
49. Arcadia Bluffs
72. Shoal Creek

Anyway, as a fan I'm happy to see it make the list.

*Another favorite of mine - The Olde Farm - won best new private in 2000 but doesn't crack the current top 100.

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