NC Business Journal Top 100

[Roger Wolfe]

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts.  Click on the link below...

https://carolinagolfclub.memberstatements.com/Clubs/CSGCarolina/Uploaded/FacilityPics/NC%20Bus%20Journal%20Top%20100.pdf

[Greg Krueger]

Wade Hampton #17 & Tobacco Road #63? Golf Digest has Wade Hampton #20 IN THE UNITED STATES!! Wow, makes you wonder.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Carolina GC is woefully underrated.
Wade Hampton is next to Rock Barn?
Rock Barn ahead of Old Town?
Curious........

[Mark Saltzman]

A few more noticeable differences:

No Mountaintop and no Diamond Creek and no Champion Hills  (I suspect not enough raters in the NC publication).
Eagle Point: GD (3 state, 48 top 100 US); NC (15)
Old Town: GD (9); NC (24)
Old North State: GD (13); NC (3)
Elk River: GD (not rated); NC (7)

For anyone familiar with NC courses, any comments on these substantial differences?

[Greg Tallman]

A few more noticeable differences:

No Mountaintop and no Diamond Creek and no Champion Hills  (I suspect not enough raters in the NC publication).
Eagle Point: GD (3 state, 48 top 100 US); NC (15)
Old Town: GD (9); NC (24)
Old North State: GD (13); NC (3)
Elk River: GD (not rated); NC (7)

For anyone familiar with NC courses, any comments on these substantial differences?

Elk River may not be the 7th best course within a 25 mile radius of its clubhouse

[Ed Oden]

A few more noticeable differences:

No Mountaintop and no Diamond Creek and no Champion Hills  (I suspect not enough raters in the NC publication).
Eagle Point: GD (3 state, 48 top 100 US); NC (15)
Old Town: GD (9); NC (24)
Old North State: GD (13); NC (3)
Elk River: GD (not rated); NC (7)

For anyone familiar with NC courses, any comments on these substantial differences?

Elk River may not be the 7th best course within a 25 mile radius of its clubhouse

Now that's funny!!!  And might be true.

Threads disecting the Golf Digest and Golfweek lists inevitably focus on a handful of courses that folks feel are materially underrated or overrated.  The rest of the courses on those lists are reasonably close enough to popular opinion that most won't see their placement (or lack thereof) as a felony.  On the other hand, the NC Golf Panel list is, in my opinion, so out of touch with reality that there really isn't much point in discussing it.  Doing so would only lend it legitimacy that I'm not sure it deserves.

[Greg Ross]

Continues to make me wonder..."Who is doing the ratings for these things?"

[Matt MacIver]

Continues to make me wonder..."Who is doing the ratings for these things?"

Indeed.  For instance, Carmel South was closed most of last year for renovation, so it probably shouldn't even be on the list until enough "raters" have seen the new course.  Or at least talked to someone who's played it and liked the way the grass was cut...

[Ronald Montesano]

We just had a poll on the Buffalo News site and the results were silly, but at least it didn't pass itself off as a rating. I'm wondering if there is even a board of raters for this publication. Roger, can you dig a little deeper?

Ron M.

[Roger Wolfe]

We just had a poll on the Buffalo News site and the results were silly, but at least it didn't pass itself off as a rating. I'm wondering if there is even a board of raters for this publication. Roger, can you dig a little deeper?

Ron M.

http://ncgolfpanel.com/

[Ronald Montesano]

"Our list of the top 100 courses is determined by a scoring system where panelists are asked to consider among these factors: conditioning, routing, design, strategy, memorability, fairness, variety and aesthetics. Thanks to a voting process that's now completed and tabulated online, we're able to provide a greater array of specialty category rankings that we hope you enjoy."

and

"Like any rankings, ours is not an exact science; our hope simply is that they can be appreciated by a broad spectrum of golfers."

These two quotes say it all.

[Bart Bradley]

Despite the fact that this list gives lots of love to my home course, I have to agree with Ed.  This list is a sham. Because it fails to include one of the best courses in the state (Diamond Creek) and misses the mark so badly on many of the courses, I wouldn't even know where to begin to have a reasonable discussion.  It is trash.

Bart

[Greg Tallman]

Despite the fact that this list gives lots of love to my home course, I have to agree with Ed.  This list is a sham. Because it fails to include one of the best courses in the state (Diamond Creek) and misses the mark so badly on many of the courses, I wouldn't even know where to begin to have a reasonable discussion.  It is trash.

Bart

7 is a lucky number.... might as well start there. 

[mike_beene]

Which Carmel course is which.One is older feeling and one starts around the entrance road and has a very short par 3 that is 9 or 10.

[Terry Lavin]

That's an awesome Top 20, that's for sure.  Great depth to that best of state list.

[Ed Oden]

Mike, the North course at Carmel CC was designed by George Cobb in 1950 and is the one that is closest to the entrance.  The South course is a 1962 Ellis Maples design which has traditionally been thought of as the better of the two.  It is the South course that Rees Jones just reworked (they reopened about a week ago).  I haven't played the new South course yet, but I have toured it.  Based on what I have seen, I suspect the club had goals beyond sprucing up the course for the members.

[mike_beene]

Ed it is the north course that I have played.A good friend is a member there and we usually go out of town to play but I have been to the range there a few times.

[Bruce Wellmon]

The 2012 version is posted.
http://www.ncgolfpanel.com/courserankings.cfm

Top 100 Courses

1.  Pinehurst No. 2, Pinehurst 72 7,497 76.4/141 
2.  Grandfather Golf and Country Club, Linville 72  7,085 74.3/145
3.  Quail Hollow Club, Charlotte 72  7,396 75.0/140
4.  Old North State Club, New London 72 7,102 74.8/142
5.  Pine Needles, Southern Pines 71 7,015 73.5/135
6.  The Country Club of North Carolina (Dogwood), Pinehurst  72 7,204 75.2/134
 
7.  Charlotte Country Club, Charlotte 71 7,335   75.9/146
8.  Elk River Club, Banner Elk 72  6,826 73.4/141
9.  Forest Creek Golf Club (South), Pinehurst 72 7,067 74.6/143
10.  Pinehurst No. 8, Pinehurst  72  7,092 74.1/138
11.  Biltmore Forest Country Club, Asheville 70 6,606 71.5/127 
12.  Pinehurst No. 4, Pinehurst 72 7,117  74.2/135
 
13.  Linville Golf Club, Linville  72  6,946 73.4/139
14.  Eagle Point Golf Club, Wilmington  72 7,170 74.5/137
15. The Country Club of North Carolina (Cardinal), Pinehurst  72         7,212 75.0/141
 
16.  Cape Fear Country Club, Wilmington  72 6,856   73.4/135
 
17.  Forest Creek Golf Club (North), Pinehurst         72 7,139  74.7/144
 
18.  Rock Barn Golf and Spa (Jones), Conover  72         7,126 74.4/141
 
19.  Wade Hampton Golf Club, Cashiers 72 7,154 74.0/144
20.  Sedgefield Country Club, Greensboro 71 7,117 72.9/130
 
21.  Raleigh Country Club, Raleigh  71 6,816 73.7/135
22.  Dormie Club, West End  72  6,988 74.0/140
23.  Old Town Club, Winston-Salem  71 6,825 73.2/132
 
24.  National Golf Club, Pinehurst  72 7,125 75.1/143
 
25.  Bright's Creek Golf Club, Mill Spring 72         7,392 76.1/143
26.  Myers Park Country Club, Charlotte 72 6,926 73.0/132
 
27.  Old Chatham Golf Club, Durham 72  7,210 74.0/131
28.  River Landing (River), Wallace 72       7,009  73.5/141
29.  Willow Creek Country Club, High Point  72 6,972  73.9/139
30.  Treyburn Country Club, Durham  72  7,070 74.5/140
31.  The Hasentree Club, Wake Forest 71         7,074 73.9/139
32.  Balsam Mountain Preserve, Sylva  70 6,859 73.0/145
33.  Forsyth Country Club, Winston-Salem  71  6,555 71.7/130
 
34.  Mid Pines Inn and Golf Club, Southern Pines         72 6,528  71.3/127
 
35.  Duke University Golf Club, Durham 72  7,105 73.9/141
36.  Greensboro Country Club (Farm), Greensboro  72  7,302  75.1/140
37.  Carmel Country Club (South), Charlotte 72 7,503 76.5/142
38.  The Club at Irish Creek, Kannapolis  72 7,099   74.3/137
39.  Leopard’s Chase, Sunset Beach  72  7,055 74.3/140
 
40.  Bald Head Island Club, Bald Head Island 72 6,855 73.8/137
41.  Finley Golf Course, Chapel Hill 72 7,119 75.2/141
 
42.  Tiger's Eye, Sunset Beach 72         6,849 73.3/141
 
43.  The Club at Longview, Weddington 72  7,068 74.5/140
44.  Gaston Country Club, Gastonia 72  7,042  74.2/135 
45.  Pinehurst No. 7, Pinehurst 72  7,216 75.5/149
 
46.  Alamance Country Club, Burlington  71 6,900 72.8/128
47.  St. James Plantation (Reserve), Southport 72 7,212 75.2/140
48.  Prestonwood Country Club (Meadows), Cary 72 7,108 74.6/138
49.  Grandover (West), Greensboro  72         6,800 72.5/136
 
50.  Governer's Club, Chapel Hill 72  7,062 75.1/144
51.  River Landing (Landing), Wallace   72        7,112 74.0/132
 
52.  Linville Ridge, Linville 72  6,775 72.8/136
 
53.  The Cliffs at Walnut Cove, Arden 72         7,278  74.7/138
54.  Pinewild Country Club (Magnolia), Pinehurst           72 7,446 76.4/139
55.  Grandover (East), Greensboro  72 7,100 74.3/140
56.  Scotch Hall Preserve, Merry Hill  72         7,257 76.3/139
57.  The Cardinal Golf and Country Club, Greensboro         70 6,821 74.2/139
 
58.  Hope Valley Country Club, Durham 70 6,671 73.1/133
59.  Lake Toxaway Country Club, Lake Toxaway 71         6,500 70.9/134
60.  MacGregor Downs Country Club, Cary 72 6,812 72.9/134
 
61.  Carolina Golf Club, Charlotte 71         7,011 73.2/138
62.  Country Club of Landfall (Dye), Wilmington 72         7,020 74.3/132
63.  Tanglewood Park (Championship), Clemmons 70 7,018 75.4/142
 
64.  Pinewood Counry Club, Asheboro 72         6,830 73.5/134
65.  Mid South Club, Pinehurst   71  6,988 73.9/140
66.  Bryan Park Golf and Conference Center (Champions), Browns Summit 72 7,097 74.5/135
67.  Forest Oaks Country Club, Greensboro 72 7,197 75.9/145
68.  The Golf Club at Ballantyne Hotel & Lodge, Charlotte  71 6,710 71.5/133
69.  Tobacco Road Golf Course, Sanford 71       6,554 73.2/150
70.  Porters Neck Country Club, Wilmington 72 7,112 74.8/138
71.  Brier Creek Country Club, Raleigh 72  6,885 73.6/139
 
72.  River Run Country Club, Davidson        72  6,947 74.2/138
73.  Ballyantyne Country Club, Charlotte  72  7,034   74.1/136
74.  Cutter Creek Golf Club, Snow Hill 72  7,270 75.3/144
 
75.  Lonnie Poole Golf Course, Raleigh 71      7,358 74.9/144
76.  Wilson Country Club, Wilson 72 6,851 73.1/136
77.  Country Club of Salisbury, Salisbury 71 6,665 72.0/128         
78.  Jefferson Landing, Jefferson 72 7,111  73.1/134
79.  Crow Creek Golf Club, Calabash 72       7,101 73.9/130
80.  Walnut Creek Country Club, Goldsboro    72         6,936   73.0/132
 
81.  Country Club of Asheville, Asheville 71        6,672 72.3/134
82.  Cape Fear National Golf Club, Leland 72  7,217 74.5/143
83.  Grove Park Inn Golf Course, Asheville            70 6,162 70.0/126
 
84.  Mount Mitchell Golf Club, Burnsville 72 6,495 70.0/121
85.  The Heritage Club, Wake Forest 72 6,929 73.2/135
86.  Seven Lakes Country Club, Seven Lakes 72  6,943 74.4/140
87.  Starmount Forest Country Club, Greensboro 71 6,518 72.0/136                         
88.  Tournament Players Club at Wakefield Plantation, Raleigh  72  7,257 75.2/137
89.  Mill Creek Golf Club, Mebane 72  7,004 73.5/144
90.  Bermuda Run Country Club, Advance 72  7,082 74.3/136
91.  Anderson Creek Golf Club, Spring Lake 72 7,180 75.0/140
92.  Mimosa Hills Golf and Country Club, Morganton 72  6,664 72.4/135
93.  The Club at 12 Oaks, Holly Springs 72 7,220 75.9/147
 
94.  Providence Country Club   72         7,021 73.9/138
 
95.  Rivers Edge Golf Club, Shallotte 72        6,909 74.0/144     
96.  Hound Ears Club, Blowing Rock   72         6,327 69.9/129
97.  The Point Lake & Golf, Mooresville Club 72         7,037 74.2/140
98.  Blowing Rock Country Club, Blowing Rock 72 6,162 69.9/130
99.  Carolina Colours Golf Club, New Bern 72 6,860 72.9/132
100.  Pinehurst No. 6, Pinehurst 71 6,990 74.4/139
 

[Mark Saltzman]

More than anything, this list tells me NC is a state full of great golf.

[Keith OHalloran]

I haven't played all of these courses, but I am suprised that Oak Hollow can't crack the top 100 in the state.

[Carl Johnson]

Well, as a North Carolinian, a member of one of the listed courses (Carolina GC), and someone personally familiar with enough of these courses to have a reasonable opinion about the relative rankings of courses (that I am familiar with, and keeping in mind I'm not much of a fan of ratings anyway), here are my observations:

(1) there are lots of very good golf courses in North Carolina, as pointed out above;

(2) this list, as a whole, is silly (although, obviously, it does get some courses about right, I believe);

(3) keep in mind the nature of the publication that is publishing the list; and

(4) [the cliche] there's no accounting for bad taste.

[Ben Sims]

Is there really that large of a difference between Pine Needles and Mid Pines?

If I was planning an architectural learning trip to he sand hills region and I included #2, Dormie, Tobacco Rd and one other, what should it be?

[Mark Saltzman]

Ben, it's not quite in the sand hills region, but I would make the effort to see Old Town. Perhaps more than any other golf course I have ever played I find myself thinking about Old Town. If you have limited Maxwell experience, it really is a must see.

[Carl Johnson]

Is there really that large of a difference between Pine Needles and Mid Pines?

If I was planning an architectural learning trip to he sand hills region and I included #2, Dormie, Tobacco Rd and one other, what should it be?

In response to your second question, I would recommend Southern Pines Golf Club: http://southernpinesgc.com/  I'm focusing on your reference to architectural learning trip -- not, say, the "top four courses" in the area.

[Carl Johnson]

Ben, it's not quite in the sand hills region, but I would make the effort to see Old Town. Perhaps more than any other golf course I have ever played I find myself thinking about Old Town. If you have limited Maxwell experience, it really is a must see.

Revoke comment -- Mark, I did not read your post closely enough.