Golf Digest on NYC newsstands with Top 100

[Travis Dewire]

lolololol, so they have guys like Donal Trump voting in their top ten lists?!?!?! Of course, 4 or 5 Trump courses made their way into his list. I like Annika's list with Pine Needles, and Newport CC, but IMO this is a total joke, and waste of $5 for a magazine. I've never seen such a thing. All players top ten lists are done cutely on their own stationary!!!!!

Also, Brad, maybe you can help clarify for me the MA state rankings. Whatsup with these? I understand that being in the top 100, automatically puts Boston and O.S at #3 and 4 respectively. But why are those even in the top 100? Because they are brand new? TPC Boston at #10? Hyannisport at 11, Turner Hill at 14, Charles River at 16? Oyster Harbors at 15? I do believe that these courses are entitled to high praise, but not at the expense of other, better courses. This reads corruption and foul play. Oyster Harbors 15th in the state? Where they ever ranked before Doak did his restoration there? I am very happy to see the International move to #19, with all that said.

Worcester CC is why I don't get. #7 last year, to #13 this year. The course is somewhere toward the latter quater of a multi year RON PRICHARD PLAN. So there is some new grass beginning to root in place of old trees. But bottom line the course looks insane with the work already begun, and is only going to look even better. So that makes the course drop 6 places? IMO Worcester should be up ahead of those new southerncoast courses, as well as a few others that failed to make the grade. Dedham C and PC for instance??? What about Taconic, oak hill, or country club of pittsfield? Doraters even go out there???

[Jim Franklin]

I have not played Camargo, but hope to get there this summer.

As for the top 5 that should be in (that I have played), Rock Creek, Kingsley, Baltimore CC, Black Mesa, and The Quarry at Giants Ridge. The top 5 that should be out, Sahalee, Rich Harvest, Eagle Point, Hazeltine, and Laurel Valley.

[Jim Franklin]

lolololol, so they have guys like Donal Trump voting in their top ten lists?!?!?! Of course, 4 or 5 Trump courses made their way into his list. I like Annika's list with Pine Needles, and Newport CC, but IMO this is a total joke, and waste of $5 for a magazine. I've never seen such a thing. All players top ten lists are done cutely on their own stationary!!!!!

Also, Brad, maybe you can help clarify for me the MA state rankings. Whatsup with these? I understand that being in the top 100, automatically puts Boston and O.S at #3 and 4 respectively. But why are those even in the top 100? Because they are brand new? TPC Boston at #10? Hyannisport at 11, Turner Hill at 14, Charles River at 16? Oyster Harbors at 15? I do believe that these courses are entitled to high praise, but not at the expense of other, better courses. This reads corruption and foul play. Oyster Harbors 15th in the state? Where they ever ranked before Doak did his restoration there? I am very happy to see the International move to #19, with all that said.

Worcester CC is why I don't get. #7 last year, to #13 this year. The course is somewhere toward the latter quater of a multi year RON PRICHARD PLAN. So there is some new grass beginning to root in place of old trees. But bottom line the course looks insane with the work already begun, and is only going to look even better. So that makes the course drop 6 places? IMO Worcester should be up ahead of those new southerncoast courses, as well as a few others that failed to make the grade. Dedham C and PC for instance??? What about Taconic, oak hill, or country club of pittsfield? Doraters even go out there???

Which Brad are you referrig to?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

lolololol, so they have guys like Donal Trump voting in their top ten lists?!?!?! Of course, 4 or 5 Trump courses made their way into his list. I like Annika's list with Pine Needles, and Newport CC, but IMO this is a total joke, and waste of $5 for a magazine. I've never seen such a thing. All players top ten lists are done cutely on their own stationary!!!!!

Also, Brad, maybe you can help clarify for me the MA state rankings. Whatsup with these? I understand that being in the top 100, automatically puts Boston and O.S at #3 and 4 respectively. But why are those even in the top 100? Because they are brand new? TPC Boston at #10? Hyannisport at 11, Turner Hill at 14, Charles River at 16? Oyster Harbors at 15? I do believe that these courses are entitled to high praise, but not at the expense of other, better courses. This reads corruption and foul play. Oyster Harbors 15th in the state? Where they ever ranked before Doak did his restoration there? I am very happy to see the International move to #19, with all that said.

Worcester CC is why I don't get. #7 last year, to #13 this year. The course is somewhere toward the latter quater of a multi year RON PRICHARD PLAN. So there is some new grass beginning to root in place of old trees. But bottom line the course looks insane with the work already begun, and is only going to look even better. So that makes the course drop 6 places? IMO Worcester should be up ahead of those new southerncoast courses, as well as a few others that failed to make the grade. Dedham C and PC for instance??? What about Taconic, oak hill, or country club of pittsfield? Doraters even go out there???

Travis,

I've yet to play them so my surprise to your statement about OS and BGC is only based on word of mouth and pictures.  Where do those courses fall short in your opinion?

[Jim Franklin]

And Travis, some of tose courses may not even be on the GD list of candidates. I loved Old Sandwich and hear Boston Golf is even better, but have certainly not played the number of Mass courses you have.

[Mark Saltzman]

Jim,

How do courses become eligible if they are not on the GD list? Are individual raters allowed to request that a course should be added, or is it just a 'powers that be decide' kind of thing?

Thanks,
Mark

[Jim Franklin]

Mark -

The course can contact Golf Digest and ask to be rated. It is a fairly simple process.

[Travis Dewire]

Brad Tufts! My Massachusetts born man from Tedesco!!

I have seen pictures of O.S, have a bunch of friends that loop there and go out anyday after 3. Brutually long, think it hits 7,000 from the tips, beautiful fescue lots of bunkers, lots of earth moved. Good course, great condition, looks aesthetic to me. Same with Boston GC. Hear great things, but you couldn't pay me to join either club. Very expensive too, not sure what they are charging now though. They are very good courses, but in a state rich with some many truly masterful golf courses, its tough to see these hitting #3 and 4 in the state. Old Sandwich was designed by Coore and Crenshaw, so of course that gives it prescident in today's ranking system. Boston GC was built by Gil Hanse, and has only been open since about 2008. I'm not sure why, but this course has been biased from the beginning.

Playing in tournaments around the state, you hear lots of golfers "drooling" over boston golf club. I have never played it, never been, and only maybe seen one hole. I know it to be improper and judgemental, but you can learn a lot about a course by whom is praising it and whom is not. The people praising the course to me, seem like they would rank The International's Fazio course, very well!!!

I thought of something seeing the Camargo reference. Yeah, some clubs are so elite they don't want some no-body panelist showing or calling up their course for a comp'd round. (Not to say all panelists are no-bodies, but to the elite blue blood strong holds, i'm sorry, but you are).

The lists are so politically based its a joke. Of course GD can't dismantle the daylights out of a Coore and Crenshaw course, Ben would be on the phone with someone the day the issue ran. Play the courses yourself, at the very least look up some pictures to help build an image too. All in all, I wouldn't be too tied into these rankings, there is no truth behind them, only opinion.

[Jim Franklin]

Travis -

After you play them then let me know what you think. As for ground being moved, that's not the C&C style so I am not sure if you are correct. As for the same people loving Fazio and C&C, you are wrong there too.

And Brad has NO CONTROL over the list more than his one vote per course.

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

I agree w 4 of 5 of your courses that need to go out -- have not played Eagle Point yet. Agree w your take on 4 of 5 that should go in -- have not played Giant Ridge -- yet.

I will provide a few others from my side as well -- both in and out. Curious to your comments and those from others.

Travis:

Can you post your top 15 from The Bay State ?

Happy to comment my side once you do.

thanks,

[Anthony_Nysse]

Are you retarded?  

Easy...some of us may have family members that cannot control the fact that they were born this way. I know you're trying to prove a point, but your nonsense is starting to get offensive.

[Jud_T]

Anyone who thinks there's nothing wrong with GD's ratings methodology need only look at Rich Harvest Links at number 58.  I'll take Golfweek with it's inherent flaws any day over this drivel....As to the Alotian, I haven't played it and probably never will, but I'd think that these days overpriced, overmanicured, ultraexclusive clubs with an overabundance of non-golf amenities should not be something golf magazines should be promoting as their first order of business.  Of course I'll be watching the Masters in 3D....

[Terry Lavin]

Rich Harvest Farms is up there only because the owner is a terrific guy who does nothing but give back to the game.  He also presumably invites all of the GD raters personally, so I'm guessing the raters feel pressured to up the ante.  The course itself is an absolute mess in terms of its routing, its bunkering and its overforestation.  It is probably #58 in Illinois, not America.  Having said that, Jerry Rich hosted a heck of a Solheim Cup a year or so ago.  I went and it was one of the absolute best golf events I've ever attended.

As for the overall rankings, I prefer Golfweek, because you get the equivalent of the top 200, with the classic and modern.  There are problems with both systems, it seems to me, but lists are made so people can take advantage of them or take issue with them.  Not worth getting all excited about.

[Joe Bentham]

anybody with the physical issue in hand mind turning to page 60 and telling me what you think?

[Garland Bayley]

I think tipping is a way for entities to get away without paying employees their true worth, and thereby representing their product to be less expensive than it really is.

Now go quack somewhere else you duck.

[Richard Choi]

I wonder what Sahalee did to grease their way up like Rich Harvest...

[Matt_Ward]

Anthony:

Thanks for your comments -- my sister-in-law was born brain damaged and is 52 - with the brain age of a 3-year-old. The comments made on someone being "retarded" hit home and clealy were out of bounds. It does offend and the person saying as much should understand that -- I'm assuming such messages can penetrate -- no dount that's an iffy postion with some.

[Mark Saltzman]

anybody with the physical issue in hand mind turning to page 60 and telling me what you think?

Joe,

think about what?  That some of the tour pros are cheap?  Honestly, I couldn't care less.  If they don't think they should or need to tip, good for them.

My club doesn't have caddies, but whenever I visit a club that does and I take one, I just ask the caddiemaster how much to give for a good loop and unless the caddie is terrible, that's what I give.

I thought the article made sense, though all it really did was point out the obvious.

Mark

[Sean_A]

Shivas

Out of curiosity, what was your intent by calling a guy (who doesn't appear to be a good pal) retarded?  Perhaps you should preface your comments with "no offense, but" before you offend someone.  That usually makes it alright to offend people.

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

I wonder what Sahalee did to grease their way up like Rich Harvest...

I wonder if when an event such as the Senior US Open occurs at a course, it makes raters that are impressed by that make an attempt to rate the course when they might not otherwise have. Especially, when the course is relatively easy to get to like one in a large urban area.

[Sean Leary]

I wonder what Sahalee did to grease their way up like Rich Harvest...

I wonder if when an event such as the Senior US Open occurs at a course, it makes raters that are impressed by that make an attempt to rate the course when they might not otherwise have. Especially, when the course is relatively easy to get to like one in a large urban area.

I have no idea why Sahalee's ranking went up, but I have a hard time believing that hosting a Senior Open just last year would change the ratings that much 5 months later.  Wouldn't Five Farms have been helped by this in the past few years with the Senior major they held? I am not saying that having a marquee event doesn't impact rating, but to go up that much? For a Senior Event? And I would have to think Sahalee got more raters in the last couple of years because of Chambers Bay, but that should hurt it rather than help it....

[Kalen Braley]

In response to all the comments on Sahalee....

...maybe its just as simple as "raters love trees"

[Sean Leary]

In response to all the comments on Sahalee....

...maybe its just as simple as "raters love trees"

Could be, Kalen. Its a beautiful place and a fine course. I just wonder if it is one of those courses that just scores well in the GD ranking system, more so than raters like it or think its great.

[Kalen Braley]

In response to all the comments on Sahalee....

...maybe its just as simple as "raters love trees"

Could be, Kalen. Its a beautiful place and a fine course. I just wonder if it is one of those courses that just scores well in the GD ranking system, more so than raters like it or think its great.

And to clarify, I wasn't trying to make that sound like a negative per se.

Everyone has thier preferences and I've spoken to a lot of golfers who really love playing thru the trees.  They have a few courses like that here in the Spokane area, (although not quite as densly treed from what I can tell from satellite pics of sahalee), including the very popular Indian Canyon.

[Garland Bayley]

In response to all the comments on Sahalee....

...maybe its just as simple as "raters love trees"

Could be, Kalen. Its a beautiful place and a fine course. I just wonder if it is one of those courses that just scores well in the GD ranking system, more so than raters like it or think its great.

Another factor. Golf Digest uses "resistance to scoring". Wasn't Sahalee toughened up for the Senior Open?