[Lynn_Shackelford]

I didn't get an answer to my post in #7.  Is Trump LA so bad that it doesn't make an LA top 20?  Would it make a public top 20 (or 10)?

Mark

Sorry Mark, most of us have not and will never play it.  So it is hard to say where it falls.  Probably somewhere between the 80-100th best in L.A. County.  Ahead of Alondra, behind Skylinks in Long Beach.

[Bobby Jones]

I've played it a couple of times in charity scrambles.  And once i was invited and played my own ball.
Negatives on Trump National:
1) Contrived.  More difficult does not equal better golf course. 
2) Fake waterfall on 1.  Am i on the damned matterhorn at Disneyland?
3) The Donald claims "Best golf course in the west." Who the F is Fairways and Greens magazine?
4) No risk reward shot values on any holes.
5) He charges $300
6) All parallel holes.  I feel like i've played the same hole 6 times in the course of one round.
7) Long walks from green to tee. (not the worst, but still a negative.)
Why incorporate non-natural water hazards on a course that's on the ocean?
Positives on Trump National:
1) beautiful views of the pacific and catalina.  course is usually in great condition

[Terry Lavin]

I've played Riviera, LA North and South, Wilshire, Bel-Air and Mountaingate.  Riv and LA North are exceptional.  LA South was fun.  Wilshire is fun, interesting and challenging, especially on the greens, but I haven't played it since its renovation, which looked a bit odd in photographs.  Bel-Air has its moments, but there are holes that look pretty out of place.  Don't remember anything about Mountaingate.  Must not be memorable.

[Bruce Bearer]

I ve been fortunate to have played everthing worth playing and quite a few that I hope to never see again. This should be pretty much the order :
Riviera
LACC
Rustic Canyon
Wilshire
Victoria
Bel Air
Oakmont
Lakeside
Annandale
Palos Verdes
Hacienda
San Gabriel
Brookside.  There is quite a bit of Tillie/Bell in tact
Virginia
Valencia
Goose Creek
Lost Canyons
Woodland Hills
Santa Anita
Recreation Park
 South Hills

Thanks, Robert.   There are many on your list I have not played.  The only course from Orange County on your list is Hacienda, which I agree, is fantastic.  No other OC courses? 

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Unfortunately, OC is a large area devoid of top level architecture.  Pelican Hill is world class eye candy, but its best features are the unreal detail that went into making the concrete rocks look so real!  Cota de Caza needs some work, but the potential does exist.  Shady Canyon is an expensive borefest.  Strawberry Farms has some good holes, but a couple complete WTF holes Santa Ana was Ted Robinsoned to death many years ago.  Big Canyon is canyon between 25,000 sq ft homes on 3/4 acre lots pretty challenging course, but not as good as San Clemente.  The course with the most potential to be great is El Nigel-the course has been victimized by a couple of butcher architects who are dues paying members.  I have a strong feeling that eventually it will be a top 10 .
Trump was a disaster as Pacific Trails and the Fazioing and waterfall certainly would not improve a back and forth mess.

[Wayne Freeman]

Robert-  I've got some serious reservations about some of the courses on your list. 

             Victoria, which claims to be the oldest course in SoCal out in Riverside has some good holes, but has a pretty mediocre
                start and is fun but far from great.
       
             Virginia CC is very close to me and I've played it a bunch of times.  They want to claim Tillinghast played a significant role
                    there.  It is often very cramped and has one of the all time worst short par 4's.  Several weak holes.
           
             Woodland Hills and South Hills are  on miniscule pieces of property and are pretty good layouts, but not
               very memorable.

              I play Rec Park all the time and love it.. but because so many of the holes are so short and nondescript, it can't rate here.
           
                             I think better choices include:   Sherwood, Shady Canyon, Oak Quarry, and Mesa Verde..

                                                                                 

[Alex Miller]

I've played it a couple of times in charity scrambles.  And once i was invited and played my own ball.
Negatives on Trump National:
1) Contrived.  More difficult does not equal better golf course. 
2) Fake waterfall on 1.  Am i on the damned matterhorn at Disneyland?
3) The Donald claims "Best golf course in the west." Who the F is Fairways and Greens magazine?
4) No risk reward shot values on any holes.
5) He charges $300
6) All parallel holes.  I feel like i've played the same hole 6 times in the course of one round.
7) Long walks from green to tee. (not the worst, but still a negative.)
Why incorporate non-natural water hazards on a course that's on the ocean?
Positives on Trump National:
1) beautiful views of the pacific and catalina.  course is usually in great condition

You forgot about the softest turf on a faux links style course you'll ever see. What the hell is all that fairway mounding for if your ball rolls 3 yards on drives?

Also I thought the fake waterfall on 17 was just as bad as the one on #1 because at least #1 went all out. The one on 17 is pure vanity and took away what was previously a bail out option for that hole.

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

This discussion has gotten thrown all over the lot.

Some people are defining LA as just LA County and others are opening up for inclusion into a broader SoCal listing.

No matter ...

[Alex Miller]

Let's assume L.A. is based around downtown. If we're including Rustic, which is a good 35-40 minutes there are definitely a few OC courses in play. But if we include some it seems silly not to add their neighbors. Mercer's post summed it up for me: we're not missing much if we don't include Orange County courses, so let's not.

Also, has Rancho been mentioned? Because it deserves to be in the discussion.

[Matt_Ward]

It's really quite simple - if one is saying the "broader LA" area -  then it's meaning floats depending upon the person.

If one follows a narrow application then it's just LA County.

If one broadens it to include more than two counties then just call it the best of SoCal and have everything weighed together.

[David Kelly]

It's really quite simple - if one is saying the "broader LA" area -  then it's meaning floats depending upon the person.

If one follows a narrow application then it's just LA County.

If one broadens it to include more than two counties then just call it the best of SoCal and have everything weighed together.

Matt,

The original post clearly said,  "within 1 hr of LAX."  Without traffic all of these courses are.  With traffic, none of them could be.

[Bruce Bearer]

How about we do this...  courses within 75 miles of downtown LA (Staples Center)?  That would then include Ojai but not Valley Club or Sandpiper.  Redlands is in, all the desert courses are out.  Orange County is in, San Diego is out.  Hope that makes it easier....

I'm also very curious to hear comments about some of the recent renovations and whether they significantly improved the courses.  Annandale?  Hacienda? Wilshire?  Oakmont?  Others???

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

My ranking is based upon the restoration/renovation work.
Wilshire is finished to an extent, but the bunkering on 16! & 17 is going to be receiving somtweaking in the near future.  At some point the 3rd green is going to be rebuilt (it has been rebuilt 3x since the late 70's. The original 3rd was one of the most awesome greens in SoCal-think some of the natural contour greens at GCGC and the original 3rd was a penninsula green with a natural saddle down the middle and lots of slight humps and bumps that was a left to right green.  This is easily the 4th. Best course in. SoCal.
Oakmont is mostly a renovation by Curley, though he brought as much of the Behr back as possible
Victoria is the subtle hidden gem. This has the most original Behr of all the SoCal courses.  The 1st green was a generic rebuild in the mid-70's.  It can be somewhat restored to its original alps features, but will rquire a lot of work.  The greens have a lot of subtle stuff going on and are very, very tricky in a fantastic fun way.  The bones of greatness are lying there only in need of tree removal and green expansion.  This is a SoCal must pl

[Wayne Freeman]

Although Trump does not rate high as a golf course, it does rate really high in other ways:

            The ocean views are fabulous as are the girls that work behind the desk in the pro shop ( I think that's a
               prerequisite for all Trump courses)

             The restaurant and the food are wonderful..  One of the most romantic things you can do is go there before
                sunset, have a drink and then dinner.  The service is excellent and they give very generous portions.  My wife
                and I usually get a couple of appetizers and split one entre and dessert.

            If you want to add some golf there,  go to Terranea ( about 2 miles further) and play the terrific par 3 course there,   
                  and then go back to Trump to eat....

[Tony Weiler]

Trump LA makes top 100 public on BOTH Golf and GD.  It can't simply be the views, can it?  I wonder if that says more about the ratings and magazines, or this site?  Heck, maybe both. 

[Tim Leahy]

I haven't seen El Caballero CC mentioned and I would put it in my top ten privates in LA. Also I would put Angeles National right behind Rustic on the public list.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I have not played Angeles National and really have not heard enough buzz to mandate a road trip.  As for El Cab, I used to play there rather frequently in the late 70's and have played a couple of rounds there in the past 10-12years.  As a teenager I thought it was awesome because it was unrelenting tough.  It is even tougher today because the trees are now towering and the greens are faster and no less severe.  The problem is that it is only a super well bunkered set of severe greens complexes and a super narrow tree farm.  I am not enirely sure on this but it probably was built to be brutally tough for a membership to have a course to boast about in an era when they were denied membership at LA's more swank clubs
The pride that went into its toughness was always mentioned by the membership during the awards for the annual SoCal junior golf tournament

[Forrest Richardson]

Kemper rarely chimes in here, so I will tout their two properties in Ventura — Olivas Links (Golfweek top 25 Municipal Courses) and Buenaventura, a par 70 course that has Wm P. bell roots.

For public access, I vote highly for Rustic Canyon as well. It is a joy to play providing you are not caught in a flash flood.

[Joe Perches]

I have not played Angeles National and really have not heard enough buzz to mandate a road trip.

I think Angeles is not worth a specific road trip, but it's a pretty good same day play with Rustic.

[Jim Eder]

Again I think it depends on how you define "LA area" but I would add Soule Park in Ojai which is just a really fun treat in a great setting and Saticoy a bit closer to LA off the 101 with some amazing green complexes imo.

Hacienda and Oakmont are wonderful and Victoria is really really good. Woodland Hills, El Cab are fun.

LACC North and Riv are my top 2 with LACC North now my number 1.

Then I would put Rustic which truly is terrific and a total bargain.

Then I would put a group of Hacienda, Oakmont, Wilshire, Bel-Air, Saticoy.

The next group of Annandale, Victoria, Lakeside, El Cab, Rancho Park, Virginia, Ojai Valley Inn, LACC South

Then Broookside, Woodland Hills, San Gabriel, Soule Park

There are a number of others that are really pretty good courses or are in a nice setting but these would be my top 20 favs (for many many reasons that may extend beyond the course itself). Not all of these will be exactly what GCAers want but I have enjoyed myself on these courses every single time. Sure some are no longer what they were but they are still a pleasure to me. There are some that are not mentioned above that I believe are a lot of fun to play but are just not in my top 20 to no fault of their own.

Thanks to those for listing some courses I have not had the pleasure to play yet but will in the future..........

[Jim Eder]

I should add if I do stretch the LA area a bit much Valley Club is my number 3 as it is amazing imo but I don't think of it as LA. Not that Ojai is either but I had to get my dear Soule Park in there.................

[David Bartman]

Trump LA is awful.  Rustic is pretty darn well done.  Riv and LA are far and away the best courses in LA. 



That being said I am new to this discussion group but have been an avid golfer for the better part of 3 decades.  I have played at the highest levels and have been a scratch or better golfer for the last 24 years.  I am wondering what goes into peoples opinions of golf courses on this site?

Blind shots, blocked out from the fairway, green complexes not fitting for the required approach are a few things that are not acceptable to me. 

I for one, think that Wilshire, Hacienda, Annandale, Oakmont, Angeles National are not very good at all.  All of these courses have attributes that are extremely negative from a play-ability stand point.  Woodland Hills, San Gabriel really?  Brookside, Rancho, Griffith Park are all better than those two, IMHO.  I do understand that a courses maintenance practices are a large part of a players enjoyment of a course, but for me , rankings should throw out maintenance and only limit oneself to the course layout itself.   

There are only a handful of very good golf course in " LA Area " .  In no particular Order

 Riviera, LACC N, and Rustic Canyon

If you spread to SoCal I think one should add, Torrey S, Rancho Santa Fe, Valley Club and Sandpiper, Valencia

[Tim Martin]

Trump LA is awful.  Rustic is pretty darn well done.  Riv and LA are far and away the best courses in LA. 



That being said I am new to this discussion group but have been an avid golfer for the better part of 3 decades.  I have played at the highest levels and have been a scratch or better golfer for the last 24 years.  I am wondering what goes into peoples opinions of golf courses on this site?

Blind shots, blocked out from the fairway, green complexes not fitting for the required approach are a few things that are not acceptable to me. 

I for one, think that Wilshire, Hacienda, Annandale, Oakmont, Angeles National are not very good at all.  All of these courses have attributes that are extremely negative from a play-ability stand point.  Woodland Hills, San Gabriel really?  Brookside, Rancho, Griffith Park are all better than those two, IMHO.  I do understand that a courses maintenance practices are a large part of a players enjoyment of a course, but for me , rankings should throw out maintenance and only limit oneself to the course layout itself.   

There are only a handful of very good golf course in " LA Area " .  In no particular Order

 Riviera, LACC N, and Rustic Canyon

If you spread to SoCal I think one should add, Torrey S, Rancho Santa Fe, Valley Club and Sandpiper, Valencia

David-First of all welcome to the board. You will have to discard an awful lot of great golf holes and by extension golf courses that contain blind shots if that is a non starter for you. I say that not about LA courses but in general and wonder why you feel that way.

[John Kavanaugh]

I have a feeling that most of you have not played Lakeside. It is a delightful romp through the golf history of Hollywood. Far more interesting than a poorly engineered but fun to play Rustic. 

[Greg Chambers]

It is amazing that Lakeside doesn't get more love around here. 

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