C&C restoration work

[Joel_Stewart]

With the success and praise for thier work at Pinehurst, will Coore & Crenshaw do more work on renovations and restorations?

Looking at their web site, they list 8 courses for renovations.

Pinehurst 2011
Brook Hollow  1993
Houston CC 1986
Riviera  1993
Lakewood CC  2003
Prarie Dunes  2004
Shady Hollow 1995
Wykagyl    2006

If my memory is correct, after Riveria, they swore off restorations and until Pinehurst, had not performed any restoration work for 5 years.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I was a member at Riviera back then and they got screwed. They were forced to sod the greens instead of a grow in--the PGA was a validation of why they wanted to seed.  Anyone remember Michelson chipping on several greens? Though quite a few great players were in position to win, the tournament came down to luck because the greens were probably the worst in more than 30 years.  They were also overuled on fixing the piece of crap temporary green in front of 16 that the infamous Ted Robinson built.  They supposedly wanted to build a mini 12 ANGC benched into the hill by the 6th.  The amount of play probably warrents another green for 16.

[Tom_Doak]

Robert:

Riviera interviewed three architects for the job back then -- Coore and Crenshaw, Nicklaus, and myself.  They told us all that they intended to sod the greens.  I was certainly the low man on the totem pole back in the early '90s, so I probably wouldn't have got the job anyway, but I didn't help my chances by telling them the sod would fail.

I don't know if Bill and Ben will do a lot more renovations or not.  If they are allowed the freedom they've had at Pinehurst, who wouldn't go for that?  But most of the courses that need restoration help are private clubs with big committees, and dealing with committees is never that easy -- especially when they make unilateral decisions to sod greens!

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I think you are both right.
Management wanted the faster fix, sod instead of seeding and that was indicated up front.  However C&C indicated that they preferred seeding, but went along with management's desires.  Crenshaw really desired the job due to his affection for Riviera.  The washed sod technique was sold as one that would work just fine.  It didn't.

Supposedly Jack Nicklaus said he had a 4 foot downhill putt on the 4th and due to spike marks would have chipped it if had been uphill!

[Steve D]

To respond to your question about whether C&C will do more restoration work, it seems to me that in the coming years there will be a lot more restoration work available than new construction . . . at least in the U.S.  Based on that I would have to guess that yes, they'll be doing more restoration in the future.

Steve

[mike_beene]

Do you mean Shady Oaks?One could argue that their availability to renovate led to several good things:some old Texas courses would be a lot worse off;Prairie Dunes; might have fallen into less respectful hands;and Sand Hills might have never happened and Balleyneal might have never happened. Not sure about that but who knows.

[Jud_T]

I can't really imagine a better renovation project than Pinehurst.  A storied public course that had a huge delta in terms of improvements in playability, aesthetics and PR.  Sure there will be plenty of interesting private club renovations to do, but even beyond dealing with committees who who think they know more than they do these projects wouldn't have the same broad impact for both client and GCA as Pinehurst #2...

[JWL]

Regarding Riviera green renovation, Nicklaus also expressed a strong preference to seeding the greens rather than sodding, apparently just like Doak and CC.   Peter Oosterhuis was the Director of Golf at the time at Riviera.

[John_Conley]

Okay, so Doak, Nicklaus Group, and C&C all told them to seed at Riviera.

Who all was on the other side with the expert opinion that washed sod would be better?

[Brad Klein]

John Conley,

In my book, "Rough Meditations" I have an autoposy of the Riviera greens and what went wrong and why.

Brad:

[John_Conley]

John Conley,

In my book, "Rough Meditations" I have an autoposy of the Riviera greens and what went wrong and why.

Brad:

Brad, I own that book, I've read that book, and I love that book!  I'll pull my copy out tonight for a refresher.  Faulty memory.

[Mike Benham]

John Conley,

In my book, "Rough Meditations" I have an autoposy of the Riviera greens and what went wrong and why.

Brad:

Are you going to give us snippets of the autopsy, confirm or deny any of the previous posters comments or do you want us to buy the book?

If it is the latter, please forward an Amazon link ...

[Jud_T]

nice 4-page spread by Brad on the Pinehurst #2 restoration in the current issue of Golfweek. "...a restoration by Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw that is as radical and path-breaking as any in the history of golf-course architecture."