Herb Kohler eyes property on Oregon coast

[Howard Riefs]

Mike Keiser is quite the inspiration.

Golf Digest reports that Herb Kohler is eyeing property 60 miles south of Bandon Dunes for possible course sites.  Pete Dye is in the fold as well. 

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/blogs/wheres-matty-g/2011/03/is-herb-kohler-getting-into-go.html

Should be interesting to watch...

[Alex Miller]

Last time I went to Bandon, in June '08, we drove down and stopped at Pistol River State Park and checked out the beach. I didn't get a great look at the land to the south, but that entire coastline is something to behold and could harbor many a resort.

[JLahrman]

Yippee.  Myrtle Beach West, here we come.  Regardless of how good the courses are, there are a limited number of players who are interested in the format at Bandon (no carts, no frills, etc.).  Flooding the area with courses would likely full-service resorts, diluting the experience not to mention eating up a lot of beautiful unspoiled coast.  Count me against this.  Bandon is unique, I don't think the area needs five of them.

[Alex Miller]

Yippee.  Myrtle Beach West, here we come.  Regardless of how good the courses are, there are a limited number of players who are interested in the format at Bandon (no carts, no frills, etc.).  Flooding the area with courses would likely full-service resorts, diluting the experience not to mention eating up a lot of beautiful unspoiled coast.  Count me against this.  Bandon is unique, I don't think the area needs five of them.

Joel,

We can debate this on our drive up tomorrow, but how much of the Bandon experience is away from the resort? I don't know if I can ever see the Oregon coast turning into a Myrtle Beach West, mostly because no one is going to flock there for anything but the golf. That coastline, while beautiful, does not have "resort weather" and while Kohler's place may have cartpaths, I don't think a west coast American Club could be a bad thing. Also, at this point, 99.9% of that Oregon coast remains golf course free.

[Rick Shefchik]

An update on this 2009 announcement, or a new project altogether?

http://ilovedyegolf.blogspot.com/2009/09/dye-announces-crook-point-resort-in.html

[JLahrman]

Alex, the weather is a good point.  In this case, I suppose crappy weather is on my side.

As is written in the article, avid golfers are who would benefit.  But there are not that many golfers avid enough to head to middle-of-nowhere Oregon for golf only.  Bandon has been surprisingly successful from a business point of view.  I just have a hard time thinking that more resorts could be added in and still have it be economically viable.  But what do I know.  And I'm not the most avid golfer either, when I see unspoiled coastline I tend to want to keep it that way.  Oregon does have a tremendous amount of space, and a couple of golf courses are still going to leave a ton of coastline, but I like the amount of undeveloped space the way it is.

[Alex Miller]

I didn't mean to imply that I want that coastline littered with golf resorts, just that it is filled with great potential sites.

[JLahrman]

Yes, I didn't take your post that way.  There's a whole lot of nothing right now, which I like.  And like I said, even if a few more were put in, there is still going to be a whole lot of nothing on the Oregon coast.

[Pete_Pittock]

I did a drive by last year because of the siting of a golf course there. Here's link to previous thread, the general routing ist at Reply #28.
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41396.0.html
The course would be entirely west of US 101 but would have a quirkiest routing. I'd lke to see them site 3-6 holes east of the highway so the coastal section isn't overcrowded, shoehorned in. If they have carts, and path only, it better be 18 holes worth of curbing.

Due to the remote nature (a 1+ hour drive from Bandon) the question would be how much golf traffic it would generate. I could see some driving down from Bandon for a day trip round, but not vice versa. Medford OR would probably be the preferred air entry.

[Tim Leahy]

Hope Herb allows carts on his courses and puts Bandon out of business! LOL

[Matt_Ward]

For the Oregon coastline to be remotely moving in the direction of Myrtle Beach it will require a good bt than just say a few nore courses. I don't see the need to panic because having a slightly different presentation beyond what Bandon provides can be a good mixture.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

It might seem like an odd comparison, but when fast food restaurants are proximate, everone benefits.  That is why lesser one's will locate next to In n Out.  Why not an Oregon linksland trail?

[Steve Lapper]

For the Oregon coastline to be remotely moving in the direction of Myrtle Beach it will require a good bt than just say a few nore courses. I don't see the need to panic because having a slightly different presentation beyond what Bandon provides can be a good mixture.

Matt,

  While I certainly agree with you on the need for variety and avoidance of panic, Kohler's record of producing golf is best described as expensive and artificial. I've never been a great fan of Whistling Straits, though I do respect and have enjoyed Blackwolf Run.

  I'm sure any of the Dyes are capable of creating an experience that savors the natural features and surrounds, but Herb Kohler has yet to prove he is. I definitely hope he does as the site he eyes is indeed spectacular. Decades ago, I'd head out yearly from our home in Rowena to the Pistol River coastline area to windsurf and was always awe-struck by just how beautiful the dunes, forest and bluffs were.

   I'll root for Kohler to succeed, but remain firmly in Mike Keiser's camp until proven otherwise.

[Ted Cahill]

The Kohler courses are my second favorite golf resort destination (in the USA), second only to Bandon Dunes.  I live in the SF Bay area and drive up to Bandon 2-3 times a year.  I would happily add a stop in Pistol River on those trips- but it would never replace my visits to Bandon Dunes.

Would Kohler/Pistol River take a bite out of Bandon's market?  It's a reasonable question.  My first impression is to say no.  Kohler would likely have carts (although we don't give him enough credit for making WS walking only- a year before Kaiser did) and more luxurious accomodations.  For golfers that are looking for carts and valet parking, I don't think they were going to Bandon in the first place. 

Oregon is a wonderful golf destination and IMO can support more golf, particularly on it's magnificent coast.  Wouldn't it be ironic and delicious if more golf on the Oregon coast took a bite out of traffic to Myrtle Beach, Arizona, Florida and the many other mediocre destinations? 

[Jud_T]

Good luck Herb, but it's gonna have to be pretty special to justify foregoing any rounds at Bandon to play.

[Mark Saltzman]

Ted,

I disagree slightly in that I think a world-class resort (if it had golf of equal quality to Bandon) would certainly impact Bandon's business.  Most people going to Bandon are going for great golf.  IMO, for many, the fact that it is rustic and walking only is neither here nor there.  If there were a top quality resort down the road and it had carts and a spa, etc. I think many golfers who visit Bandon would be equally, if not more happy, to visit that resort.

Mark

[Ben Sims]

Jud's right.  

Forget you're a GCA.com crazy nut for a minute.  Say I am a once-a-year golf trip person, and I look at what Bandon has to offer in terms of quality and quantity.  Unless Mr. Kohler differentiates his resort on the basis of cost (unlikely) or some other metric, then just how can you expect to compete?  

Look at all the most successful golf resorts in the US.  They are geographically diverse.  Not one of the big resorts are next to each other.

[Dan_Callahan]

Jud's right.  

Forget you're a GCA.com crazy nut for a minute.  Say I am a once-a-year golf trip person, and I look at what Bandon has to offer in terms of quality and quantity.  Unless Mr. Kohler differentiates his resort on the basis of cost (unlikely) or some other metric, then just how can you expect to compete?  

One word: strippers

[Dan Herrmann]

I thought the area up on Three Capes Drive (way up North) would be a great site for a golf course on the Oregon coast.  No - it's not sand-based, a key to Bandon's greatness, but it is extremely scenic and a lot closer to Portland.

[David Kelly]

Jud's right.  

Forget you're a GCA.com crazy nut for a minute.  Say I am a once-a-year golf trip person, and I look at what Bandon has to offer in terms of quality and quantity.  Unless Mr. Kohler differentiates his resort on the basis of cost (unlikely) or some other metric, then just how can you expect to compete?  

Look at all the most successful golf resorts in the US.  They are geographically diverse.  Not one of the big resorts are next to each other.

Maybe in the days of just two Bandon courses someone could have jumped in and piggybacked on Keiser's success with a resort close by but now with 4 courses, the Sheep Ranch, and a short course on the way who would want to leave the property and go to another resort?

 So drawing in Bandon guests to extend their stay won't really work and if you are relying on people who are interested in golf and want to come to the Oregon coast but not go to Bandon, well that seems like a seriously flawed business plan.

[George Pazin]

Theoretically it shouldn't be that tough for someone to step in and undercut the Bandon resort.

I'd be surprised if it's possible, given the need to get the necessary permits. That's why I don't see a future Myrtle.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I earned my degree in the liberal arts, so please excuse my fading knowledge of ECON 101.  But wouldn't more competition effectively serve to drive down greens fees at both resorts?  and, isn't that a good thing for us, the consumer?  If that is indeed how the ol' supply and demand thing works, then i say welcome.

[Anthony Gray]

 Southwest Oregon is dificult to get to for many.So one more resort would be a bonus.

 Anthony

[Ted Cahill]

I imagine after the success of Bandon Dunes, the permitting process to build a golf course has become easier- i.e. opponents would have a more difficult time. As for which courses would see less play as a result of a new Kohler resort on Oregon coast- let me float this- Ireland and Scotland. I can imagine a certain percentage of traveling golfers (particularly on the US West Coast) who would percieve it to be simpler and cheaper to go to the Oregon Coast.

[hick]

When I was at Bandon Dunes last month and i did hear that a wellness (spa) center is in the works as is a commissary. I hope to get back in November to see the par three course. Not sure i would drive any longer than Bandon , flying into Portland.