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Geoffrey_Walsh

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Ferry Point GC (Chapter 10 - The Donald Pounces!)
« on: February 08, 2002, 05:43:08 PM »
Has anyone heard or seen anything about the Nicklaus designed Ferry Point GC, the first muni to open inside NYC in 35-40 years?  When the Buick classic came to town last year there were rumours that Nicklaus was considering the design for inclusion in the TPC rota in an attempt to lure the tournament away from Westchester CC.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 10:31:30 AM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Adam_Messix

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Re: Ferry Point GC
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2002, 10:38:49 PM »
Geoffrey,

I can only tell you what I heard from a board member of the MGA who is definitely in the know.  He told me this fall that there was a 90% chance of the tournament moving from Westchester CC.  The conflict is involving that amount of money WCC receives to host the tournament and that other venues (Ferry Point was mentioned) were willing to let the tour use their course gratis.  

The tour's main concern is a fear over leaving with a backlash similar to the tour leaving Congressional (a course the player love) for Avenel (which most players can't stand).  That is WCC's best chance to keep the Classic.  I'm sure someone here can probably tell you, but the WCC member's I know would love to see the tournament leave.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2005, 02:20:43 PM »
This course has been in development for the last 3-4 years and I believe it is finally scheduled to open next year...

Does anyone have an update on it?  Has anyone seen the final routing?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 02:21:03 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Tom_Doak

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2005, 09:46:04 PM »
The construction out there was stalled for some time ... Jack had made a couple of site visits there before we started on Sebonack, but then when Jim and I stopped in late last year to see what had been done, there were a bunch of weeds growing in the dirt like nothing had happened for a month.

Nothing against Jack's course (we really didn't get to see much of it), but the veterans among the Tour players would be REALLY upset if they abandon Westchester ... along with Harbour Town and Pebble Beach and Riviera, it's their favorite venue.


Geoffrey Childs

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2005, 10:04:08 PM »
Westchester CC members receive a $600 decrease in their fees to host the tournament. Big deal.  They are doing the PGA Tour a favor and if they are stupid enough to pick an inferior venue because it is being given gratus they get what they pay for  ::)

Westchester CC is an under appreciated course and far better then any alternative.

Is it true that they are spending $20 million or more on the Ferry Point course and the fees will be beyond what typical working people in the Bronx can afford?  

Is it true that The Nicklaus group was told that they could move 500,000 CY of dirt and they surpassed that well before the course was even close to being completed?  

Is this the reason that the couse lies untouched and unfinished?

Not a few miles away lies two WONDERFUL munis, Pelham and Split Rock that given a fraction of those $20 or more millions for restoration and maintenance would yield a FAR better facility for the people of the Bronx to utilize.

Someone or some group made a historically stupid decision with Ferry Point.

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2005, 11:18:49 PM »
Did a quick Google for updates and came across the following articles:

www.nydailynews.com/boroughs/story/305161p-261164c.html

www.villagevoice.com/news/0502,salkin,59957,5.html
(copy this entire link and paste in address bar)

www.bxtimes.com/news/2005/0708/Front_Page/001.html

70 million (!) dollars later, it looks like the course won't open until Summer of 2007.

With this amount of money being spent, its amazing more hasn't been written in the papers and on this site about the current failure of this project.  Makes Trump look downright frugal.

Geoff C. - I agree with you completely.  Pump 10 million into each of the Bronx courses (Van Cortlandt, Pelham and Split Rock) and pocket the other 40 million.  You'd have three great venues for the public instead of one trash heap.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2005, 11:46:57 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

JWL

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2005, 01:55:41 PM »
Geoffry and Geoffry,
I will not comment on the validity of the tournament moving from Westchester to Ferry Point.   I have not heard anything in that regard.   The course development is moving slowly, but it is moving forward.   That is about all I can say about that.
Regarding the amount of cost for the course and the amount of dirt moved, please allow me to remind you that 1,200,000 yards of dirt was moved to the site just to provide cover over the landfill site and create the "possibility" of a golf course.   Methane gas venting has been installed for a while now and has been monitored with success.   Approximately 1 and 1/2 holes have been rough shaped with additional fill material that is being brought to the site continually.  In order to construct the type of golf course that we have envisioned, it will take considerably more fill  material.   We are in hopes that the course will be very unique for the area and obviously well received.   The amount of cost for the course itself will  not approach the numbers mentioned.   That is all I can discuss to date.    We hope to install some drainage before winter this year and get into full shaping in the spring of 06.   A few things are still up in the air, and that is why I can't be more specific.   I think the treehouse will like it if we are allowed to do as envisioned.   Some anyway. :)

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2005, 03:38:46 PM »
JWL

I appreciate your response.  However, building a VERY costly golf course in the Bronx that was not ever envisioned to be a site that would serve the people living in the area is to me a travesty regardless of the final product.

Have you ever been to Split Rock, Pelham or the very first public golf course in the country Van Cortland Park (should be a historic landmark). The Split Rock course in particular was built by Van Kleek and has an amazing set of greens. There are new tees buing built and some bunker work I believe by RT Jones Jr.  If a mere fraction of the $$$$$ spent on Ferry Point would have been earmarked towards a long term maintenance budget and restoration project for the existing munis in the Bronx I would not be so biased against the Ferry Point project. I would also be surprised if you are building a better course then Split Rock which minus a few thousand trees and some work is a true gem. The poor working people of the Bronx deserve reasonable venues to play the game and Ferry Point will only make a few people a lot of $$$$$ (is Jack taking his full "signature fee?"  and let some rich manhattanites and suburban Westchester players a new place to play using Bronx land to do it.

Sorry but this is a ill advised project given the costs and the intended customers. Mr Lipe could you give us an idea of the approimate greens fees for this new New York City "muni"? I work not 5 minutes from Split Rock and just as close to the Ferry Point site.  I've played Split Rock twice this season (nice late afternoon 3 1/2 hour rounds with a diverse group of locals) and I know once your course is finished I'll still give my business to Split Rock and the good folks of the Bronx. I've asked many local folks at the course and the local driving range about Ferry Point and TO A MAN not a single individual I have talked to has any interest in this over priced golf course. This project is as welcome to the locals as Sherman was marching through Georgia.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2005, 04:01:58 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

Robert Mercer Deruntz

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2005, 05:27:20 PM »
I just drove over the Whitestone Bridge a few minutes ago and  there has been very little change since last fall except for greater piles of dirt, rock, broken croncrete, etc.  It would take a miracle or an incredibly fast shaping job with a complete wall to wall sodding for the course to open anytime in 2006.  

Geoffrey_Walsh

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2005, 01:21:31 PM »
I think the treehouse will like it if we are allowed to do as envisioned.   Some anyway. :)

JWL,

Thanks for your response.  I know that you probably can't give any specific details, but can you provide us with a high-level summary of what the final routing might be like?

Thanks,
Geoff

SB

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2005, 02:08:19 PM »
Ferry Point is a private project built on a landfill.  At last check (a while ago), the project was being built entirely with private funds, and the city would receive rent for the land, which was formerly a landfill.  While there are stories of poor kite-flying clubs being bumped, this place was a DUMP and anything is an improvement.  If the people building Ferry Point want to spend a boatload, let em.  They outbid everyone else fair and square and the city isn't at risk.  

Would the city prefer a $30 golf course.  Sure, but there's no way to pay for capping the landfill and all the other improvements at $30 a head.  Plus, there's an argument that NYC does in fact need a high quality golf course for corporate entertaining.  (Remember that NYC as a city competes against other cities for conventions and such).  Should it be a renovated Split Rock?  Possibly.  However, NYC is going to require that you keep the existing clubhouse (a landmark) which means that you're going to spend upwards of $20M and all you have is a fixed up golf course.  Plus, NYC isn't going to pony up the cash to do it and American Golf can't do it without raising prices.  Finally, is Morgan Stanley going to send top clients to a renovated Split Rock?  No.  Will they send them to Ferry Point?  Probably.

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2005, 02:18:32 PM »
SBusch

Split Rock is a SUPERIOR golf course and worthy or RESTORATION not renovation whcih is not needed.  Given $2 million or so fro tree removal, bunker restoration and a continual maintenance budget to keep conditions pristine they could have a course that rivals most of the country clubs in Westchester, Long Island or New Jersey.  That's saying a lot about its design which is highlighted by a teriffic set of very bold greens complexes.  I could care less if a privite project pours a ton of money into Ferry Point for rich corporate clients who don't ever otherwise set foot into the Bronx except perhaps for their gratus corperate seats at Yankee Stadium. However, as payment in addition to what you mentioned I believe they should fund the true Bronx munis so the residents of the Bronx have a good place to play in reasonable conditions. This is the least the people of the borough should expect in exchange for allowing use of the property.

Finally, if corperate types would rather go to Ferry Point then what will likely be a much better golf course at Split Rock then I think that's great.  Maybe it will rival Trump National as the self proclaimed best course in the state  ::)


SB

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2005, 06:57:34 PM »
Geoffrey,

Then you are getting your wish, as Split Rock is getting a couple mil and we'll see the results.  When last I checked, the folks there were very tight lipped about exactly what will be done, but it entails minor work, trees, etc, etc.  Whether it is a renovation or restoration remains to be seen.  Of course, who's to say what to renovate to.  I can tell you, having reviewed all of the original drawings of each hole, the course is not laid out as designed.  Bunkers are not where planned, green shapes have changed and in some cases moved.  The overall look has changed from the old pictures.  

Regarding Ferry Point funding the other courses, the City can do whatever they like with the money from FP.  But if I were the developer and the City told me to fund other courses to turn them into my competition, I'd tell em to stick it.  Of course, in either case, the money is only there if the course gets built and makes money, so are you still against the new course?

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2005, 08:15:09 PM »
Geoffrey,

Then you are getting your wish, as Split Rock is getting a couple mil and we'll see the results.  When last I checked, the folks there were very tight lipped about exactly what will be done, but it entails minor work, trees, etc, etc.  Whether it is a renovation or restoration remains to be seen.  Of course, who's to say what to renovate to.  I can tell you, having reviewed all of the original drawings of each hole, the course is not laid out as designed.  Bunkers are not where planned, green shapes have changed and in some cases moved.  The overall look has changed from the old pictures.  

Split Rock is lucky in that neglect over the years has resulted in the bare bones of the course remining intact.  I have a couple of old photos with frilly bunkers that look nothing like what is there today.  However the bones of the course are the routing that allowed use of wetlands that would NEVER be allowed today (holes 6-8 are great examples and you can ask Geoff Shackleford and Tommy Naccarato who I took to see the course this summer) and the great greens which are too bold to be built today but for a few places. If you have a plan that differs from what is in the ground I would like to see it.  As I said, RT Jones Jr. has built new tees on the back nine and some bunker work but it is a bandaid and not in character with the old photos. I have not seen a single tree removed and the course could use a few thousand gone. I hear that since I was there over a month ago there is new bunker work on the short par 3 4th hole that again is out of character putting bunkers that never existed close to the front of the green where going long is death.  That is a travesty if true. They also graded a fairway  that looks artificial and was unnecessary.  Whay not a REAL restoration to Von Kleeks plans especially if you have them and they are available.  This is a bandaid cure and not well thought out.

Regarding Ferry Point funding the other courses, the City can do whatever they like with the money from FP.  But if I were the developer and the City told me to fund other courses to turn them into my competition, I'd tell em to stick it.  Of course, in either case, the money is only there if the course gets built and makes money, so are you still against the new course?

Yes I am against the new course.  Who needs corporate types coming into the bronx to play their expensive round of golf that locals can't afford. Tell the city to "stick it" and I hope the city tells them where they can put their money. Ferry Point will never make a dime without further subsidies at a $70 million price tag and I'd sooner see it remain a dump. At some point they will ask for some sort of relief be it taxes or other financial help.  Let them build in their own neighborhood and if they want to come to the bronx then let them serve the golfers of the bronx
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 09:05:05 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

SB

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2005, 10:27:59 AM »
I haven't seen a plan for SR, but my report is that it's not major.  Mainly bunker repair as opposed to changing, adding, or moving.  I'm guessing they're not going with the original bunker style because that edge is too costly to maintain.  Not sure which fairways are being graded, but they wanted to bring in fill for 5 and 6 (i think, near the freeway) becuase it was at the water table and couldn't drain.  Trees have always been an issue with the city because they will not allow any to be cut down.

I still fail to see why you'd rather have a dump than an expensive golf course built without taxpayer funding that the city would get for free in 40 years.  The city asked for bids for a low priced golf course and nobody bid.  These guys were the only ones that would build any type of course.  I say let em put their money at risk.

corey miller

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2005, 10:38:11 AM »


Split Rock is a neat place.  Of course I would not expect anything to ever get done at the place that will ever restore one iota of architectural integrity.  In fact, what remains is a function through the years is a function of benign neglect.

I suspect all revenues from city courses go into the general pot to be spent on, well it is NYC I can only imagine.  But it would be nice if a small surcharge could be added to the green fee which would be dedicated to a proper restoration.  Can't they look at what the State did at Bethpage?

The grading on the fairway near 95 is the absolute worst I have ever seen.  I am sure the guys only prior experience was grading parking lots at Walmart.

You do bring up an interesting point about the trees and the city philosophy.  The city thinks trees are OK on a golf course?  Strategic or asthetic?  They only have to look at Central Park to understand how much better SR would be with a well managed tree program.

SB

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2005, 12:01:14 PM »
The city's tree policy is neither.  They see themselves as the biggest, most densely populated city in the US, and there used to be (maybe still is) a blanket policy about cutting down any tree beyond a certain size, or you have to plant one of equal size somewhere else.  

The city does have a new surcharge that went to pay for new irrigation systems at all the courses in 2004.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2005, 02:01:08 PM »
Here's the latest from today's NY Daily News:

Big golf mess suits mob to tee
 
Costs soar as charges & dirt fly in the Bronx

By GREG B. SMITH and BRIAN KATES
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
 
 
Secret recordings reveal Gambino capo Gregory Depalma boasting of mob's take in unloading of trucks.  
 
 
Developer Pierre Gagne insists the tons of fill are needed.  
 
It's a boondoggle in the Bronx but a potential gold mine for the mob.
Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani envisioned Ferry Point Park golf course, 222 acres of Scottish-style links designed by golf legend Jack Nicklaus, as a surefire site for future PGA tournaments.


He promised that the course would open in 2001, transforming a former city dump under the Whitestone Bridge into a pristine greensward.

But the site is still under construction and the projected cost for the developer has skyrocketed from $22.5 million to $75 million.

And so far the city has spent $6.9 million for environmental cleanup, with the costs expected to double before the project is finished.

Nary a blade of cultivated grass grows there to hint at Rudy Giuliani's vision, and the developer now says the course won't be complete until the end of 2007.

Day after day, dozens of trucks rumble into Ferry Point, dumping dirt and stone, ostensibly to sculpt a beautiful and challenging course.

Some of those trucks allegedly are run by the mob.

New York Dirt, said by the FBI to be controlled by Gambino capo Gregory DePalma and his soldier Robert Vaccaro, and JustUs Recycling Corp., reputedly under the thumb of Gambino associate Anthony D'Onofrio, have dumped hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of fill at Ferry Point, records show.

In phone calls secretly taped by the feds, DePalma boasted that the mob takes as much as $5 for every cubic yard of fill their trucks unload.

"I want $2 a yard, maybe more ...," DePalma said at one sitdown. "We may end up getting $5 a yard."

In May 2004, while the FBI was recording DePalma's calls, New York Dirt dumped 8,400 cubic yards of fill at Ferry Point. By the capo's own crooked calculations, that adds up to as much as $42,000. For just one month. New York Dirt has been raking it in at Ferry Point every month since 2001.

Legitimate trucking companies are paid to take debris from construction sites and then pay tipping fees to dump it at landfills like the one at Ferry Point.

But the syndicate receives payments at both ends - when one of its companies removes dirt and again when it dumps it, according to government investigators.

"If you got the hole, you got the gold," DePalma joked as agents eavesdropped.

DePalma, 73, was arrested in March, and is awaiting trial on federal racketeering charges. But New York Dirt continues to profit from Ferry Point. In the first quarter of this year, it added 20,520 cubic yards of fill to the site.

Developer Pierre Gagne says that ever-increasing amounts of fill are necessary to create contours because workers can't safely dig into the contaminated soil.

But to critics, Ferry Point is just an excuse to open a new, highly profitable landfill on the site of a dump that was closed in the 1960s.

"They're running a landfill with a golf course as closure," said environmental lawyer Leslie Lowe.

Gagne insists the developers are not profiting from tipping fees, which have been reported at between $7 and $15 a cubic yard.

"It's paying for the grading," Gagne said. "If we had to bring in material to the site and pay for it, it would make the project more costly."

Speaking of cost, greens fees at Ferry Point are expected to be more than double the $30 charged at other city golf courses. But the site, half the size of Central Park, offers stunning vistas of Long Island Sound and is located near highways, providing easy access for well-heeled golfers from Westchester County and Long Island.

In 1990, then-Bronx Borough President Fernando Ferrer proposed building a 75,000-seat stadium there as the new home for the Yankees. He called it "the Bronx's Meadowlands." George Steinbrenner quickly dismissed the idea.

Three years later, the city sought golf course developers for the site, an idea percolating since it was suggested by powerbroker Robert Moses more than half a century ago.

Gagne's Ferry Point Partners was accepted in 1998. Shortly afterward, Giuliani proudly announced that his administration was negotiating with the Professional Golfers' Association to bring a major tournament there.

"Such a world-class facility deserves a world-class tournament," Giuliani crowed.

In 2000, when the developers signed a contract with the city, it was said to be the largest license deal ever handled by the Parks Department. It allows Ferry Point Partners to operate the course for 35 years, paying the city $1.25 million the first year and up to $3 million after 30 years.

The development won support from Ferrer, the community board, the neighborhood council member and the area homeowners association.

In addition to the championship golf course, the plan calls for a driving range, a 7,500-square-foot clubhouse, a 13,000-square-foot boathouse/restaurant, a 25,000-square foot banquet hall, a manager's residence and parking for 950 vehicles. The project also includes two small public parks.

It's an ideal site. Except for one thing: The old landfill oozes potentially deadly methane gas.

The developers have had to dig trenches to control potential methane leaks into adjacent Throgs Neck Houses and more than 20 monitoring wells to keep track of leaks. They are required to submit regular reports to the state Department of Environmental Conservation.

Environmentalists have sued - none successfully - citing everything from the threat to the housing project's 3,500 residents to the fate of endangered peregrine falcons.

Gagne concedes the project is wrapped in "a lot of red tape," and city records show his company has paid politically connected operatives a staggering $1.3 million to cut through it.

Lobbyists on the project include John Mascialino - a former member of the city's Finance Concession Review Board, an agency whose approval was needed for the project - and Robert Harding, former Giuliani administration deputy mayor for economic development.

Bolstering their efforts was Rudy Washington, a member of Giuliani's inner circle.

Washington says that while he was deputy mayor he served "as a traffic cop" to help the developers through the maze of city bureaucracy. After he left government, he said, he continued to help as an "informal adviser." But, he added, "They never paid me a nickel."

The lobbying has paid off.

In March 1999, without any formal environmental study, the city signed a memorandum of understanding with Ferry Point Partners ensuring that the city, not the developers, would be held liable for any adverse environmental consequences arising from the former landfill.

The city Parks Department, the official sponsor of the project, repeatedly checked "No" on state Department of Environmental Conservation forms asking whether the project would have any significant environmental impacts.

The DEC accepted the assessment without requiring a full-blown environmental impact statement - which would have required public hearings.

Six months later, test borings found "high methane concentrations" 2 to 3 feet below the surface as well as the presence of toxic polychlorinated biphenyls, arsenic and lead "at levels exceeding risk-based criteria."

"We live with our windows closed because of all the debris - and you breathe that," said Lehra Brooks, a longtime resident of Throgs Neck Houses. "The trucks are there at 1 and 2 o'clock in the morning."

Solutions have been worked out behind closed doors.

One example: When the developers were caught mishandling material excavated from a methane gas venting trench, the DEC forgave $25,000 of a $30,000 fine, noting that "the parties desire to settle this matter amicably."

And, when developers said they needed more fill, the DEC granted permit modifications - again, without public hearings - increasing the amount of fill allowed on the site from 1 million cubic yards to 1.5 million cubic yards, nearly doubling the number of trucks entering and leaving the site.

And now the DEC is reviewing yet another plea to allow 726,300 more cubic yards of fill.

"I don't like to think it will be denied," Gagne said. "There is no environmental impact. This will only allow us to create a better golf course."

But forget about the PGA. It ran out of patience a long time ago.

"We haven't given any further thought [to Ferry Point] and would not until probably many years after the golf course is completed," said PGA Tour operations chief Henry Hughes, who participated in talks with the Giuliani administration.

But the trucks keep coming.
 
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2005, 02:27:21 PM »
But the trucks keep coming.
 


I drove by there this weekend, and while it looks like there have been some changes, it is a long long way from being a golf course visually.

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2005, 02:43:18 PM »
"And so far the city has spent $6.9 million for environmental cleanup, with the costs expected to double before the project is finished."

I thought NO city $$$ was going into this project  ::)

If they used it for what golf they already have in the borough there could be something of value to the community.

WOW!

Don Herdrich

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2005, 03:08:19 PM »
having done some work in the area......this Daily News article only scratches the surface.......I wish them the best of luck, but the Westchester Classic has a better chance of being played at Trump National!

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2005, 03:25:18 PM »
having done some work in the area......this Daily News article only scratches the surface.......I wish them the best of luck, but the Westchester Classic has a better chance of being played at Trump National!


Don- You're not in the mob are you?  Hey, I'm REALLY REALLY REALLY SORRY for those things I said on the other thread.  Your right about everything of course.  ;D

Seriously, We found something to agree upon.  8)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2005, 03:58:16 PM by Geoffrey Childs »

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2006, 01:18:27 PM »
Every year around this time (for the past 7 years or so) I wonder what is going on with this project.

The last article I could find on Google with an update was the Daily News article copied above from August, 2005.  I also noticed that the Nicklaus Design website no longer lists the project on its "projects under construction" tab.

Is this course still going to happen?  Anyone heard any updates?  Will it be closer to a Liberty National or a Bayonne design?  Judging by the amount of material being dumped on the site, I would hope it would look more like Bayonne.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 01:23:09 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

Geoffrey Childs

Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2006, 01:45:55 PM »
Geoffrey

Thanks for bringing this back.

I've since played Split Rock several times.

The money being spent on the course is totally WASTED.

They rebuilt and regrassed the tees but its impossible to grow grass because they are in total shade from the overgrowth of trees.  They will never serve their purpose without a tree removal program.

They regraded a fairway (#17 I think) that used to slope hard from right to left and put a (irrigation?) pond just off the tee.  It looks silly and un natural.

They added a fairway bunker om #14 in the right hand driving area of the short par 4 right in the optimal area for an approach shot.  Why?  Waste of funds and out of character.

The Bronx munis are still a sad neglected bunch of golf courses.  So much more was possible with some tender loving care and a bit of sympathy for the local players.

Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ferry Point GC
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2006, 01:50:58 PM »
Geoffrey,

Thanks for your response.  How do you know about those changes?  Have you walked the property?  If so, could you give me a sense of what the rest of the course looks like...

In addition, any idea when the course will actually open?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 01:51:38 PM by Geoffrey_Walsh »

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