[Melvyn Morrow]

Scott

If someone has gone to all that expense and bother to design a golf course considered to be sporty with many hazards, its seem like only good manner to play the course in the way the designer intended. If one minimises ones score while playing the course (as well as missing the traps) then that should be regarded as a bonus.

Once told on TOC ‘never be too quick to get ones ball into the cup’. I have remembered that from my youth and it has allowed me to enjoy a great game no matter the designer or the age of the course.

Melvyn   

[Scott Warren]

Melvyn,

You didn't answer my question.

[Ed Oden]

Architects don't seem to shy away from designing par 5 finishing holes that can be reached in two.  Don't those have the same pace of play and space issues as a drivable par 4?  In many respects, they are conceptual siblings.  I would think that a drivable par 4 done right would make for a fantastic finishing hole.  Aren't the best drivable par 4s those with risk/reward qualities that bring both eagle and double bogie into play?  How could a hole with those characteristics not be a great finisher?  I'm not suggesting this should become commonplace.  But I am surprised they are so rare.  Is the problem that it is actually very difficult to design a good drivable par 4?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ed,

Shackamaxon has a very short finishing hole that I believe was drivable before being lengthened.

I think long hitters today can still drive the green

# 18 at Somerset Hills might have been drivable as well.

[Bob_Huntley]

One of the best is the 18th at the Durban C.C. in KwaZulu, South Africa. Two hundred and seventy yards but perilous if you hit it rto the right.

Bob

[Roger Wolfe]

Swan Point Yacht & CC in Southern Maryland.  The hole gets a lot of criticism due to it's length... 350 from the tips... usually played at 320 by the members... but it sure turned out some exciting finishes.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Scott

I believe I did

Melvyn

[Gary Slatter]

Ed - you raise a very good point. I've just scoured my brain and can think of very few short par four finishers. One more to add to the list is the Royal Burgess in Edinburgh.  It is about 250 yards downhill, OOB right.

St Andrews is about 350 yards, and then you've got to roll it up the VoS so it's not drivable to most of us mere mortals.  Elie plays uphill so, even down a strong breeze, it wasn't reachable.

Michael, I thought Royal Burgess 18th was a par three!   I only played there once, loved the course, reminded me of a Toronto course.  Great history, used to be part of Honourable Company, Muirfield West.

[Jim Jackson]

The only one I can remember is Talking Stick South (C&C); 18 is 323 from the tips, guarded on the right by a fake lake and on the left by 3 bunkers.  The turf was firm when I was there and it was easy to roll one in from 40-50 yards short of the green.  Not my favorite course, but that hole is a great way to conclude a close match.

[Bob_Huntley]

Drivable Par 4 (finishing Holes or not), do you guys really want Holes like this or allow technology to  gift you a good score (Birdie) for hitting a long Drive from the Tee.

 I had hoped that many would realise that it’s the equipment that has gifted the good score, noting the age of many of the Holes and not necessary the skill of the golfer.

The erosion of our great Holes is due to a lack of understanding or real willingness to control technology to the benefit of the game, its courses and not forgetting ultimately the players.

The 18th Green on TOC can be reached from the Tee, right under the noses of our Golfing Lords and Masters, yet they do nothing to reinstate the Hole is IMHO a total dereliction of their duty.

If you honour your National flag then by definition your honour tradition, so why do we allow technology to dwarf the once great Royal & Ancient Game of Golf.

I do not like drivable Par 4’s, where is the challenge. Do we have to reform and reshape our famous Greens to destroying all that went before because of incompetent management who do not seem to want to maintain let alone understand the game. Sooner or later common sense may prevail and perhaps due to cost they will realise that controlling the equipment is cheaper that reshaping our courses, but I fear it will be sometime before the reality sinks in to those on High.

Drivable Par 4’s – what is it guys you want two cracks at the Cherry, come on, you are Golfers, you relish the challenges, give the designers a chance to design a course or fairway at least.

Melvyn

Melvyn,

Please correct me if I am wrong are there not any number of courses in Scotland that are, or even were , drivable from day One?

I am thinking of James Braid's eight seaside holes at  the Girvan Golf Course, just down the road from Turnberry.


Bob

[Michael Goldstein]

Gary - Yes great history at Royal Burgess.  I loved the red blazers & the first rendition of the rules in the clubhouse.  The 18th at 250yd as a par four was a shock to the system after coming from Long Island playing the par threes there from the plates.

The more I play, I find short par fours quite naff unless they're done really well.  Yes holes like 10 at Riv / Royal Melbourne West, 9 at CPC or 3 at KH or Royal Adelaide are the business.  

But I found on many new courses, the abundance of risk/reward holes with manufactured hazards have replaced the drive and pitch holes of 320-350 yards in length which really make you think about your strategy on playing the hole.  

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