[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Just played Cobb's Creek a Philadelphia municipal with GCA Friends and had a great time.

No coddling at Cobb's, you are pretty much on your own as far as estimating yardages. There are an assorted few fairway stones for the 200 and 150 and 100 yard markers randomly scattered but for the most part you need to figure it out for yourself.  Many holes have no markers at all. On the tees... no information.

Time to learn to eyeball yardages and club it as as you feel it.

You are all some spoiled sons of a bitches with your panty waist yardages on every sprinkler head.

Yes you!!

[Tom_Doak]

Malcolm:

One of the nice things about getting to play one's courses before they open, is that a lot of times, they haven't put the yardage markers out there yet.

Of course, having built the course, we all have a reasonable idea of the yardages and shouldn't get fooled too badly, but I do enjoy playing without them and having to figure things out by sight.

[Sam Morrow]

Does Cobbs Creek have yardage books, I need to get ready for June?

[Ron Farris]

I often play golf with my A Type Forensic Pathologist friend.  Best friends but polar opposite when it comes to golf course yardage.  I play free wheeling with "feel" as my guide.  He plays with range finder, sprinkler heads, GPS carts, and a yardage book.  We play very fast and we both have fun.  Score is typically not our focus but just to be outside enjoying the game.  Of course we are not gamblers so never have more than a drink on the last hole on the line.

[Jim Nugent]

Wonder how the pro's would do, if they had no yardage markers or handbooks (except on the tee), and had to eyeball all their shots? 

Btw, that is how I played probably 99+% of all golf in my life. 

[Benny Hillard]

I have caddied a few professional tournaments and it always seems to impress me just how much they rely on their yardage books and not their own vision.
If you removed yardage books and distance markers it would surely only increase the number of practise rounds they would need to get a 'feel' for the course and its aesthetics.

I remember playing Barnbougle dunes a few years back without a yardage book. I dont think at that point they had put the 150m plates in the fairways (if they had we didn't find any across the rolling fairways). And I really enjoyed the test! I wish more courses were like this!!!

Benny

[Ken Kearney]

One of the great skills of the game has been lost... the ability to read the yardage, visualise where the pin is on the green, and the contours in and around the green. All are now available to the golfer on yardage books, GPS, iphone etc etc...
Let's not even discuss how it has slowed the game.


KK

[Adrian_Stiff]

We just tried this at a new course we opened, it was about as popular as a fart in a space suit. I was about the only person who liked it, we propably had every other group complain, it was two weeks of hell until we put markers out.

[Duncan Cheslett]

My course has around three yardage markers on the whole 18 holes.  The consensus here seems to be very much that judging distance by eye is an important part of the game.

Although the pro sells GPS gizmos, I've never yet seen anyone using one out on the course.

[Dan Herrmann]

What's your opinion on having a caddy that knows the yardages even though you don't - such as done at Pine Valley that doesn't have yardages on the sprinklers.  PV has numbers on the sprinklers that are translated by yardages by caddies.

Seems like overkill to me - either just put the yardages on the sprinklers or leave the "code" numbers off altogether.

[D_Malley]

years back i was cadding for Gary McCord at Merion, which as most of you know does not have any yardage markers. he would ask me the yardage and i would look around and give him a number.  He kept asking me how i got the number or where it is measured from, or he would check with the member who always confirmed my numbers where right on.  he had a very hard time not seeing a book or marker on the sprinkler head and having to trust my knowledge.

[Brian Marion]

Is the general feeling here that yardage markers slow the game down?

I would think not having yardage markers would cause even more indecision and more time in players pulling a club, committing to hit the shot etc. Especially on site unseeen courses.

Everyone I know who uses sprinkler heads, cartpath markers, trees, bushes, etc use it as an "at a glance" does a quick uphill/downhill/upwind/downwind analysis and then pulls a club.

For those who have played courses with no markers, can you comment on this?

[Dean Stokes]

I guess nobody on this site has Satelite Navigation in their car but instead still carries books of maps to find where they are driving? Why would you when you can stop at gas stations and ask the way causing your trip to take an hour longer........lol......the world is changing and so has golf. Who cares if golfers use range finders....we didn't as kids and still played just as well.....they make little difference to your score once you know a course. I have one to speed up play but play just as well when i forget it.

[jeffwarne]

Dean,
I do agree with you as I don't care what other people use to determine their yardage.

I guess I'm semi old fashioned as I do like a visible (vertical's helpful)150 marker such as a stone,post, or plate in the fairway as a general reference. The nice thing about something vertical is if Im more than 150 out I can be judging the distance AS I WALK UP to my ball and AM READY TO GO when I get there.
Conversely, if I'm inside the 150 I can easily pace it off or if I'm distracted looking for another's ball or something, I can look back and be ready immediately.

Most people these days won't do vertical markers because the golf world (and yes the GCA world) has gotten WAY TOO FOCUSED on form over substance and the type of signs, trash cans (holes in the ground for rakes!)no hole signs,edges on bunkers etc.
Go to any  Uk/Irish course and you'll see 150's (often colored  100 and 200 plates) as well.
In my opinion we've gotten way too focused on what people think and in an effort to discreetly put yardages on certain sprinklers (but not all) we've forced the yardage dependent player to run around finding plates or use a mechanical device,and denied him the chance to perhaps learn to estimate what 50 yards look like and use something simple like a 150 to supplement/confirm his judgement.

Of course we could put nothing out and have him eyeball it-that's ok too but as Adrian stated that's commercial disaster

[Tim Martin]

What's your opinion on having a caddy that knows the yardages even though you don't - such as done at Pine Valley that doesn't have yardages on the sprinklers.  PV has numbers on the sprinklers that are translated by yardages by caddies.

Seems like overkill to me - either just put the yardages on the sprinklers or leave the "code" numbers off altogether.

Dan-I believe the numbers on the sprinkler heads at PV are so they can be turned on in banks, i.e. all of a corresponding number can be turned on at one time. Maybe someone can chime in that knows the answer to this but I think even though the caddies know the yardage from each one the numbers were not intended for that purpose.

[Tim Martin]

Dean,
I do agree with you as I don't care what other people use to determine their yardage.

I guess I'm semi old fashioned as I do like a visible (vertical's helpful)150 marker such as a stone,post, or plate in the fairway as a general reference. The nice thing about something vertical is if Im more than 150 out I can be judging the distance AS I WALK UP to my ball and AM READY TO GO when I get there.
Conversely, if I'm inside the 150 I can easily pace it off or if I'm distracted looking for another's ball or something, I can look back and be ready immediately.

Most people these days won't do vertical markers because the golf world (and yes the GCA world) has gotten WAY TOO FOCUSED on form over substance and the type of signs, trash cans (holes in the ground for rakes!)no hole signs,edges on bunkers etc.
Go to any  Uk/Irish course and you'll see 150's (often colored  100 and 200 plates) as well.
In my opinion we've gotten way too focused on what people think and in an effort to discreetly put yardages on certain sprinklers (but not all) we've forced the yardage dependent player to run around finding plates or use a mechanical device,and denied him the chance to perhaps learn to estimate what 50 yards look like and use something simple like a 150 to supplement/confirm his judgement.

Of course we could put nothing out and have him eyeball it-that's ok too but as Adrian stated that's commercial disaster

Jeff- I`m a big fan of the 150 barber pole. Not only can it be used to gauge distance but it is a good target from the tee.

[Mike Cirba]

Malcolm,

I'm sure your post is music to Melvyn's ears.

We didn't do too badly guessing yardages, either, did we?

Actually, the first time I played NGLA some years back was a brilliant 70 degree November day with sunshine and 10-15mph breezes.

The members had left for the year and a neighboring Superintendent and I carried our bags and completely eyeballed distances around the course.    

It was tremendous fun and one of the most memorable days of my golfing life.

Yesterday was a lot of fun, as well. 

Golf at its best is a much simpler game than we sometimes make it.

[jeffwarne]

Dean,
I do agree with you as I don't care what other people use to determine their yardage.

I guess I'm semi old fashioned as I do like a visible (vertical's helpful)150 marker such as a stone,post, or plate in the fairway as a general reference. The nice thing about something vertical is if Im more than 150 out I can be judging the distance AS I WALK UP to my ball and AM READY TO GO when I get there.
Conversely, if I'm inside the 150 I can easily pace it off or if I'm distracted looking for another's ball or something, I can look back and be ready immediately.

Most people these days won't do vertical markers because the golf world (and yes the GCA world) has gotten WAY TOO FOCUSED on form over substance and the type of signs, trash cans (holes in the ground for rakes!)no hole signs,edges on bunkers etc.
Go to any  Uk/Irish course and you'll see 150's (often colored  100 and 200 plates) as well.
In my opinion we've gotten way too focused on what people think and in an effort to discreetly put yardages on certain sprinklers (but not all) we've forced the yardage dependent player to run around finding plates or use a mechanical device,and denied him the chance to perhaps learn to estimate what 50 yards look like and use something simple like a 150 to supplement/confirm his judgement.

Of course we could put nothing out and have him eyeball it-that's ok too but as Adrian stated that's commercial disaster

Jeff- I`m a big fan of the 150 barber pole. Not only can it be used to gauge distance but it is a good target from the tee.

Tim,
I was referring to the ones on the sides, but the barber pole is excellent when playing a resort or public course for the first time as- if you know where 150 is from the green you get a feel for perspective on how to play the hole

I get the feeling we're about to be shelled....

[Steve Lang]

Just played Cobb's Creek a Philadelphia municipal with GCA Friends and had a great time.
No coddling at Cobb's, you are pretty much on your own as far as estimating yardages. There are an assorted few fairway stones for the 200 and 150 and 100 yard markers randomly scattered but for the most part you need to figure it out for yourself.  Many holes have no markers at all. On the tees... no information.
Time to learn to eyeball yardages and club it as as you feel it.
You are all some spoiled sons of a bitches with your panty waist yardages on every sprinkler head.
Yes you!!

Malcolm, welcome to golfclubatlas.com,.. you're preaching to the choir you son of a bitch panty waist pre-digital nativist throwback golfer..

.. we don't need that attitude now do we?

[Anthony Butler]

I don't think it works on courses with a lot of traffic.

The Valley Club has no markers but a book with the types and positions of trees, along with the yardage to the center of the green.

Occasionally that requires you to perform the role of amateur arborist. When you hit it way off line, some geometry skills are also required.

[Niall C]

Having played nearly all my golf in the UK I was brought up without yardage markers and indeed had no idea how far I hit the ball with each club until about 10 years ago. Even on par 3's I would eye ball it and play accordingly. In fact I couldn't have told you the yardage on my home course par 3's.

Nearly all of the courses I played were older courses and there was a similar sense of scale about them. Where I came a cropper was when I began to play modern/new courses with their bigger playing areas, and then I found not only could I not judge distance at all but often I had difficulty reading putts as well as green contours somehow went against the lay of the land. It occurred to me then that I had previously been playing intuitively without consciously thinking about what the actual yardage was, was it uphill or downhill, against the wind or with the wind. At that point I started taking note of yardages. Perhaps I also became more conscious of it as traditional clubs started putting in 150 yard markers.

From my point of view I'm happy with that, thats all I need. A discreet 150 marker post at the side of a fairway helps me quickly get my bearings and play my shot. No need or desire for the exact yardage, just enough info to confirm I'm not falling foul of some optical illusion. (as an aside, why is architects think tricks that fool the golfer on the yardage like intentially dead ground, are a good idea. Bonkers if you ask me)

In my ideal world discrete 150 markers off the side of the fairways would suffice. That would save hunting all over the fairway for the 150 yard plate or a sprinkler head. An absolute no no is the christmas tree planted at 100, 150 and 200 yards at the side of the fairway.

Niall  

[Brock Peyer]

I remember reading about the guys from Hogan's era how they would practice estimating yardage and dsitance when they were driving from course to course.  It's a lost art.  The course I group up playing on only had 150 markers and so I walked everything off and had all sorts of distances memorized but had to eyeball it.  While I love playing fast and yardage markers obviously can help that, I think if truth be told, you can play faster without any yardage help.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Unfortunately Adrian's story is / would be typical nowadays... People look at you like you've two heads when you suggest it...

How short the memory is - 25 years ago and they didn't exist...

The only way it can really work is at a private club not relying on green fees or to ban them altogether across the board...

I'd be all for the latter...

[PThomas]

i know this:  if i was a pro playing for my livelihood i'd want as precise yardage as i could get

[Mark Saltzman]

As far as I'm concerned, every golf course should have at least some yardage markers.  The fact is that most people who play today are used to playing with a GPS device, yardage book or marked sprinkler heads.  These players would be completely lost on a golf course without markers and the round would likely be utterly unenjoyable.  To me, if the odd golf course chooses not to mark its yardages, so be it, but all I can see is downside.

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