Dream Arena by Ron Garl

[Brian_Ewen]

There is a real lack of decent golf courses in Thailand.

Things not getting any better, with the latest opening !

[Brian_Ewen]

Anyone recognise No.8 ?

[Alex Miller]

The ENTIRE back 9 is Augusta's back nine.

Other's I recognize:

#1- Oakmont's 3rd
#2- Pebble's 18th
#3- Sawgrass 17th
#4- Doral's 18th
#5- Postage Stamp?
#6- TOC Road hole
#7- Bethpage Black 4th
#8- Winged Foot West  10th
#9- 10th at the Brabazon Belfry course

[Anthony_Nysse]

This is disgusting. I always thought that Ron was a better architect than this, to do this type of work....

[Ally Mcintosh]

This is disgusting. I always thought that Ron was a better architect than this, to do this type of work....

At what point do you think template holes cease to be disgusting?

[Jason Topp]

I would like to try this course to see how well he pulled it off.

[Anthony_Nysse]

This is disgusting. I always thought that Ron was a better architect than this, to do this type of work....

At what point do you think template holes cease to be disgusting?

Ally-Those are not template holes. That is a direct intention to copy 9 holes, IN ORDER, of an exsisting golf course.

[jeffwarne]

This is disgusting. I always thought that Ron was a better architect than this, to do this type of work....

At what point do you think template holes cease to be disgusting?

Ally-Those are not template holes. That is a direct intention to copy 9 holes, IN ORDER, of an exsisting golf course.

So now we evaluate courses from a graphic overhead?
The course has no interior housing component.
Appears well routed and easily walkable (well at least the holes are close together).
It mimics some of the best holes in golf.
I'd be very curious to see how it looks and plays.
It's in Thailand for God's sake-Do you think the market there is more familiar with ANGC or Wild Horse?

granted I'm evaluating it from the air as well, but I think it looks good-so far.
Holes are copied all the time by well known architects-they just happen to be crappy holes (think 17 or 18 at TPC) so no one notices.
Could it be that the architect delivered a product that the client asked for?

Nice to see an architect and developer working

[Mark McKeever]

I wouldnt mind seeing how well he pulled it off before casting an opinion on it.

Mark

[Eric Smith]

Ron did Amen Corner at Golden Ocala several years ago. He also wrote an article about designing replica courses maybe 10 years back as well.

I read that this Thailand project has already sold 600 of 1000 memberships.

[Ben Sims]

Could it be that the architect delivered a product that the client asked for?

Nice to see an architect and developer working

Two great points and something we should remember.  I'm tired of ripping on everything that doesn't fit my idea of good.  I guarantee that Mr. Garl isn't designing for the people on this board or the ideals that we espouse as a group.   I am not a fan of it and if I were a designer I probably wouldn't go in that direction, but who cares?   There's a point where "The Confidential Guide" mentality is worthless.  This is one of those times.  

Maybe this is exactly what the client asked for.  You can't tell me it won't appeal to a young and impressionable golfing public.   It's the asian Old Macdonald.  

By the way, have any of you ripping this course ever been to Thailand?  You do know that Thailand is like, the 7th circle of debauchery and instant gratification right?  This course fits there.  

[Jim Nugent]

Well, Macdonald said in 1905 that "We propose to reproduce as near as possible all the most famous holes in the world."  The result was NGLA.  Maybe it's worth seeing the Thai course before condemning it.  

In a brief Google search, I saw a few interesting statements related to this:

*  "When it comes to golfing it is doubtful if any other country offers the number, range, and quality of courses that golfers can find throughout Thailand" -- Thailand Travel Online.  

* "I have played at almost all the world's leading courses and seen 70-80 courses around the world" -- Chairman of the company that is developing Dream Arena.  

[Phil_the_Author]

First of all, the man has to eat. Heaven knows there are too few major projects.

Secondly, I believe it would be safe to say that the CLIENT had more than a little input on what he wanted the design to be.

Thirdly... Charles BVlair Macdonald and NGLA. I recall something about an attempt to copy the best holes and the best features from many different golf courses at one location. I guess this means that every critic of Ron's course would turn down an opportunity to be a member or even play at NGLA bsaed upon principal.

Fourth... How can anyone evaluate this course WITHOUT playing it?

Fifth... Great, good or poor work is still great, good or poor work no matter where it is done. Being in Thailand has absolutely nothing to do with how one judges the quality of the work...

Just a few random thoughts...

Give it a chance

[JC Jones]

NGLA is not template.  It's holes are "inspired."

[jeffwarne]

Ron did Amen Corner at Golden Ocala several years ago. He also wrote an article about designing replica courses maybe 10 years back as well.

I read that this Thailand project has already sold 600 of 1000 memberships.

I played his Golden Ocala last month.
I was genuinely nervous as I played his replica of ANGC #12 (which was good) and his replica of #13 (which was great)
Both holes were on my "sneak on" route growing up at adjacent Augusta CC

...of course I may have just been nervous the Pinkertons were coming

[Sam Morrow]

I think it's a cool idea and in a place like Thailand is probably a really smart business move. I hope the place does well.

[jeffwarne]

Ron did Amen Corner at Golden Ocala several years ago. He also wrote an article about designing replica courses maybe 10 years back as well.

I read that this Thailand project has already sold 600 of 1000 memberships.

Both holes were on my "sneak on" route growing up at adjacent Augusta CC

Was that actually possible once upon a time?

very much so in the summer.
The usual loop was 13, 14,11,12
I once played the entire back nine in the middle of the day-not walking up on 18 and dropping a drive on 10.
never saw a soul but could hear vehichles driving around working.
Was hitting it so good I couldn't quit-no cups or flags and nonoverseeded bermuda greens, but I knew where the Sunday pins where!

[Philippe Binette]

At some point, you know it's not sacraligious to do that;

these are some of the best holes in the world.. and unlike the lucky few here, most golfers will never get the chance to see them or play them...

but when you copy a hole, you must COPY a hole... it this back nine at Augusta is on flat land, it doesn't work and it's stupid to do it.

[Tim Nugent]

How many people in Thailand could even get on ANGC if they even managed to travel the great distance to get there? This gives the average golfer in Thailand the opportunity to experience some of the best holes in America.  Ron's been around for a long time and doesn't have anything to prove and one course in Thailand isn't going to make or break him at this point in his career.
On the plus side, when can anybody remember anyone here discussing ANY course in Thailand? Doesn't this help "grow the game" by not only exposing golfers to great golf holes but also to what great architecture is?  Remember, You don't know what you don't know (until you discover it).
As to NGLA not being a "copy" but "Inspired by", isn't that because CBM had a planet-sized ego?  Note in his write-ups how he describes his renditions as improvements upon the originals.  I'd bet he was the original DONALD.  Simply 'copying" great holes would be beneath his genious.
Having done (at the client's dictate) replica holes, I can tell you that it is perhaps harder to replicate something than it is to do a one-off. Primarily because no 2 pieces of land are the same.  However, in the process, you tend to learn an awful lot about the hole and it's architect.  It also forces you to "fit" a hole into the topography.
I would like to know if Ron found a piece of property that allows for the 3-D of the holes.  If so,that, in and of itself, would be amazing, especially since the Rendering shows many mature trees.

Phillip - I hope you meant to type "IF" this back nine...

[Matt Bosela]

Ron maybe is getting a bit typecast in this 'replica' role.

He's already copied many of these holes before at Wooden Sticks (www.woodensticks.com) in Uxbridge, Ontario, an hour north of Toronto.

[Brian Stewart]

I think it's a cool idea and in a place like Thailand is probably a really smart business move. I hope the place does well.

I also like the idea of it and will give it a try the next time I am there.  I'm usually in Thailand at least 3-4 times/year for golf as I have a large team in Kuala Lumpur and like to take a weekend to go play golf in Thailand while I'm visiting every quarter or so.  There's actually a lot of interesting and fun golf in Thailand.  I find the clubs there to be of exceptional value as well.  I don't know that I've played a more "fun" course than Red Mountain in Phuket. 

[jeffwarne]

Ron did Amen Corner at Golden Ocala several years ago. He also wrote an article about designing replica courses maybe 10 years back as well.

I read that this Thailand project has already sold 600 of 1000 memberships.

Both holes were on my "sneak on" route growing up at adjacent Augusta CC

Was that actually possible once upon a time?

very much so in the summer.
The usual loop was 13, 14,11,12
I once played the entire back nine in the middle of the day-not walking up on 18 and dropping a drive on 10.
never saw a soul but could hear vehichles driving around working.
Was hitting it so good I couldn't quit-no cups or flags and nonoverseeded bermuda greens, but I knew where the Sunday pins where!

That's beautiful! Experiencing those holes totally alone without feeling any obligation towards a host or worrying about etiquette or whatever. Must have been sweet.

Trust me Brian,
I was SURE somebody was watching
and was moving fast-not quite the peaceful outing you would imagine-but a good way to practice handling adrenaline flow

[Tyler Kearns]

Pretty tough to face the island green on No. 3, a very real potential to dampen the rest of the round. I think the part of the design that makes the original (No. 17 at TPC Sawgrass) work so well is the mental challenge it imposes on players as they step onto the 1st tee, knowing that all could be for naught if they can't pull that swing off so late in the round.

I agree with Phillipe's comments, the terrain better be pretty close as well, otherwise you really are not capturing the Augusta experience.

TK

[Tim Nugent]

Pretty tough to face the island green on No. 3, a very real potential to dampen the rest of the round. I think the part of the design that makes the original (No. 17 at TPC Sawgrass) work so well is the mental challenge it imposes on players as they step onto the 1st tee, knowing that all could be for naught if they can't pull that swing off so late in the round.

I agree with Phillipe's comments, the terrain better be pretty close as well, otherwise you really are not capturing the Augusta experience.

TK

Tyler, a very astute observation. What makes many great courses Great is not just the collection of holes but rather how they are sequenced in the routing.  This is a reason why many replica courses fail to achieve what the original does.  At least this has 9 holes in the proper sequence.  But 2 #18's and 2 #17's on the front? You'ld better have a double espresso with breakfast.

[Gary Slatter]

I hope the course is a financial success.  Ron Garl is one of the nicest people I've met, and has a superb collection of historic golf clubs displayed in his own proshop, in his home.  I've walked a few courses with Ron and really enjoyed the experiences.

I think the jury should wait until they can walk the course.