Improved Conditions At Harding Park (San Francisco)

[David_Tepper]

I don't know if it is the direct result of a new management regime taking over last fall, but there is no doubt the playing conditions at Harding Park have improved over the last several months. Even Randy Haag, one of the top amateur golfers in Northern California thinks so:  www.randyhaag.com

[Jason Topp]

Glad to hear it.  That course is on a special location.

[John Keenan]

David

Now if we could just make the same comments about Lincoln!!

Randy Haag blog is quite interesting glad to see he is back to posting

John

 

[Tim Leahy]

How about Sharp Park and Gleneagles? Presidio?
Could be all very good public courses with TLC($$$)

[David_Tepper]

Tim Leahy -

There have been a couple of threads on Gleneagles here over the past 6-12 months. Thanks to very generous help from the super & the greenskeeping crew at the Cal Club (as well as help from a number of industry equipment and material providers), Gleneagles was able to rebuild and re-grass its greens last summer and is now back in business.

The situation at Sharp Park has turned the corner for the better, at least in terms of the property remaining as a golf course for the foreseeable future. The course needs $10-$15 million in funding for a major overhaul.

The Presidio Golf Course is administered by the Presidio Trust and is managed by the Palmer Golf Group. It is not part of SF City Park & Rec. The condition of the course has very much improved over the past 5-10 years, but the course still drains poorly in the winter months and plays very heavy.

Unfortunately, Lincoln is at the bottom of the list in terms of getting any TLC any time soon.

DT   

[Bill_McBride]

Tim Leahy -

There have been a couple of threads on Gleneagles here over the past 6-12 months. Thanks to very generous help from the super & the greenskeeping crew at the Cal Club (as well as help from a number of industry equipment and material providers), Gleneagles was able to rebuild and re-grass its greens last summer and is now back in business.

The situation at Sharp Park has turned the corner for the better, at least in terms of the property remaining as a golf course for the foreseeable future. The course needs $10-$15 million in funding for a major overhaul.

The Presidio Golf Course is administered by the Presidio Trust and is managed by the Palmer Golf Group. It is not part of SF City Park & Rec. The condition of the course has very much improved over the past 5-10 years, but the course still drains poorly in the winter months and plays very heavy.

Unfortunately, Lincoln is at the bottom of the list in terms of getting any TLC any time soon.

DT   

David, $10-15M for a major overhaul of Sharp Park?  We rebuilt our excellent course four years ago for $3.5M, including rerouting most of the holes, digging lakes for drainage and using the excavated sand to cap all fairways with 12-18" of sand, building new greens and grassing everything.  That included irrigation.  Jerry Pate designed the new course and worked to keep us on that budget.

Every time I hear one of those high budget numbers ($10-15M for a renovation!), I really have to wonder how such a project could ever be profitable at reasonable green fees.

[David_Tepper]

Bill McBride -

Construction costs in the SF Bay Area defy belief. Word has it that the renovation of the Cal Club was WELL in excess of $10 million and they probably did not have to use unionized employees to do the work.

DT

 

[Jon Spaulding]

Thanks for the update David. The conditioning on my sole visit 2 years ago was a disaster, at best.

[Evan Fleisher]

Appreciate the info David!

I'll be in the Bay area next Wednesday (3/09) and am trying to decide (if the weather cooperates?) where I might play that afternoon.  Cal Club and Harding Park were tops on my list since they are close to SFO and I have to drop off my colleague there before heading out to play.

What are overall conditions like right now...pretty wet I assume?  Are either one of the courses I listed above better in these wet conditions?

[David_Tepper]

Evan Fleisher -

If you can get access to the Cal Club (and especially if you have not played it since the renovation), I would HIGHLY encourage you to do so. Even though the condition at Harding is much improved, it is a muni that gets over 50,000 rounds of play annually and there is no way it can compete with the Cal Club in terms of conditioning. In terms of routing & design (and pace of play), the Cal Club is a better course as well.

From early January into mid-February, we had almost no rain. It looks like this week will be damp, but nothing serious. Both courses should be in better than average condition, at least on a relative basis, for this time of year.

DT
  

[Carl Nichols]

Evan Fleisher -

If you can get access to the Cal Club (and especially if you have not played it since the renovation), I would HIGHLY encourage you to do so. Even though the condition at Harding is much improved, it is a muni that gets over 50,000 rounds of play annually and there is no way it can compete with the Cal Club in terms of conditioning. In terms of routing & design (and pace of play), the Cal Club is a better course as well.

From early January into mid-February, we had almost no rain. It looks like this week will be damp, but nothing serious. Both courses should be in better than average condition, at least on a relative basis, for this time of year.

DT
  

IMHO, if you can play Cal Club, it's really not a close question -- even without considering that the non-resident rate at Harding is pretty close to the unaccompanied guest rate at Cal Club.  I was pretty underwhelmed by Harding, while I thought Cal Club was really really good -- and a great experience overall.  Hoping to start a thread about Cal Club when I can find the time . . . .

[Bill Ward]

Played Harding yesterday--2/28--and it was in great shape.  Greens were firm and divots were sand.   Last time I played it was just before the champions tour last october and for the most part there was no roll and mud on every tee ball.  I think they played lift clean and place for that tournament so this is really a significant improvement.  Just hope they keep it up.  Is a fun course when it plays fast and firm but in the past that has been the exception so am looking forward to spring/summer out there.  Now if they could just improve the pace of play....

[John Keenan]

Appears that Sharps Park is once again under fire with a new lawsuit by environmentalist regarding the frogs.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/03/03/BAN61I2L3L.DTL

 

[Evan Fleisher]

Thanks for the feedback guys.  I am set to play Cal Club Wednesday afternoon.  Will report back after my visit.  I hope the weather holds out!

[Tom_Doak]

Who is actually managing Harding Park now and responsible for the improvement?

[David_Tepper]

Tom Doak -

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/02/SPBI1G5AND.DTL

The PGA Tour took over the full-time management of Harding this past fall. Of course, they had been working with the prior management group on a part-time basis over the past several years, prepping the course for the various PGA events it has hosted.

DT

[Stephen Britton]

Tom Doak -

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/11/02/SPBI1G5AND.DTL

The PGA Tour took over the full-time management of Harding this past fall. Of course, they had been working with the prior management group on a part-time basis over the past several years, prepping the course for the various PGA events it has hosted.

DT

Jim Abate is the Superintendent. Jim was an assistant at TPC Sawgrass under Fred Klauk for I think 8 or 9 years. When the PGA Tour took over the golf course they promoted Jim to Harding Park.

Jim's an excellent Superintendent and a good player. Not to mention the transition from growing warm season grasses in Ponte Vedra to cool season grasses in San Fran. Things will only continue to improve under his management...

[David_Tepper]

Stephen Britton -

Thanks for the info on Jim Abate. It is good to know the PGA Tour has brought in someone with first-class experience. Given how much the condition of the course has improved in the past few months of Jim's tenure, it looks like the upside is substantial. Very good news.

DT

[Evan Fleisher]

Well, the golf weather gods were shining down upon me Wednesdat afternoon as I teed it up at the Cal Club.  The work Kyle Philips did there is tremendous, and the course looks and plays fantastic!  Although the course was a bit wet in spots, it was still a very enjoyable round.

The bunkering work done there is first class, and the land movements really add to the look, feel and strategy of how you play the course.  Tee shot positioning really makes a difference in how you access different parts of the green complexes. Plenty of ground game options around the greens...I hit a botaload of running hybrid shots instead of chipping and pitching due to the tight turf conditions.

The long distance sight lines across the course are stunning at times, making it hard to focus on the shot at hand.

Routing is fairly compact, but due to the significant elevation changes makes for a rather "brisk" walk.  To me, the par-3s are the pride and joy of the course, none better than the "little terror" the 125 yard 16th hole...what a butt-puckerer of a tee shot you face there with a tiny green set on a diagonal to the line of play ringed by bunkers and playing downhill...yikes!

If you ever get the chance to get out there and see the great resto work done, don't pass up the chance.