Too Many Members

[Rick Sides]

Just a quick question for the group.  Obviously in these tough economic times with many clubs struggling and closing, it's good that private clubs are keeping busy.  However, with some clubs now waiving initiation fees/ and or bonds, I have noticed a club I visit seems to now have too many members.  It is often difficult finding space to play or practice unless it's really off hours. What then makes these types of private clubs that much different than a public? 

[jeffwarne]

Just a quick question for the group.  Obviously in these tough economic times with many clubs struggling and closing, it's good that private clubs are keeping busy.  However, with some clubs now waiving initiation fees/ and or bonds, I have noticed a club I visit seems to now have too many members.  It is often difficult finding space to play or practice unless it's really off hours. What then makes these types of private clubs that much different than a public? 

I believe that's called a nice problem to have.......

[Bill_Yates]

The way they are managed. 

[Brian_Ewen]

I believe that's called a nice problem to have.......

Not if the members clogging up the course are Seniors on reduced subs.

[Carl Nichols]

I believe that's called a nice problem to have.......

Not if the members clogging up the course are Seniors on reduced subs.

Yup--the counterpoint to the negative posts about young members on the thread about proxies

[Kris Shreiner]

It's basically about trade-offs isn't it? Some factors led to the need for more members. Often it is the managed running and presentation of what the club offers, inside and out. Where it gets difficult can often be the longtime members who joined and paid a premium for the limited play, less crowded attraction of the private club setting, yet are then subject to the pack of newer folks brought in to enable the club to survive.

Communication and corrective action when the club is in the early stages of financial stess seems to be the biggest mistake made by many clubs. Usually, they don't try to right the ship until just before she's ready to sink.

[John Kavanaugh]

I've been on both sides of this issue as both an equity and a Walmart member.  Things even out after a few months of bills come in and people learn the hard truth of just how expensive club membership can be.  People quickly learn that just having a range where they can practice was not the answer and it is amazing how much it costs to take friends out to your new course.  When people budget for dues they rarely multiply that number by 3.

[Mark Chaplin]

Brian my only issue with seniors filling the course on reduced subs is if they play 5 times a week and still book 9am Saturday or Sunday which is the only time the guys sponsoring their reduced subs can play all week.

[Tim Nugent]

Mark, the easiest way to prevent Demographic Warfare is to establish different categories of membership/dues.  The mindset of many non-working seniors is to play as much as they can for as little as possible and never get an assessment.  If that's the case at your club, set up a Multi-level membership.  For example:
Level 1 - regular dues, unlimited course access, full voting rights etc.,
Level 2 - reduced dues, limited (no weekends before noon) partial voting rights (ie 1/2 vote/member),
Level 3 - silent partner, reduced dues/playing, no voting riights, no assessments.

Strategies like this go a long way to quieting clubhouse discention because members feel like they aren't subsidizing other memebers.

[Rick Sides]

I wrote this post a few weeks ago and since that post  I was greeted by a new surprise - the club now has acquired the local high school golf team.  I know high school golf is awesome for many kids, its just when I show up at the club and 30 kids are waiting on the tee box and the members were never notified, I have a problem.  An already crowded course just went to its weekdays from 3 to 6 having 9 holes filled because the golf teams in this part of NJ are big. 

[John Kavanaugh]

I wrote this post a few weeks ago and since that post  I was greeted by a new surprise - the club now has acquired the local high school golf team.  I know high school golf is awesome for many kids, its just when I show up at the club and 30 kids are waiting on the tee box and the members were never notified, I have a problem.  An already crowded course just went to its weekdays from 3 to 6 having 9 holes filled because the golf teams in this part of NJ are big. 

Good for you.

[Bruce Katona]

9 hole high School play on weekdays from 3-6 in March-May (10 weeks) really doesn't impact a course very much.  Tee off on the opposite 9 and play.  It is usually mid April before you can get in 18 holes playing very quickly afetr work here in NJ anway.

Most clubs do enjoy promoting their participation with the local high school golf team as their members have children attending the school and perhaps playing on the golf team.  Local PGA Sections encourage junior golf and this access is a way to easily comply.

[Rick Sides]

I don't mean to discourage high school golf because its the backbone of our future in golf.  I guess my question to the group or should I say gripe, is the fact that the private club I visit sometimes is closed all day every Monday(including the range), has allowed a lot of members, and now has filled their afternoon weekdays up from 3 to 6 without notifying its members.  I was just wondering if most of your private clubs do the same?

[John Kavanaugh]

I don't mean to discourage high school golf because its the backbone of our future in golf.  I guess my question to the group or should I say gripe, is the fact that the private club I visit sometimes is closed all day every Monday(including the range), has allowed a lot of members, and now has filled their afternoon weekdays up from 3 to 6 without notifying its members.  I was just wondering if most of your private clubs do the same?

This past Tuesday I was driving down for a game at a club where I am a member and was told by a playing partner who was sitting in the parking lot that the club was closed because of it still being winter.  They close on Mondays and Tuesdays in the winter.  I had forgotten.  We simply went and played at another club that was open.

The moral of the story is that if you expect to be happy at your personal leisure you can not limit yourself to one club.

[Rick Sides]

John,
That is a very good point.  I agree with you but should the fact that people pay a good amount of money to be part of a private club play a factor?

[JMEvensky]

John,
That is a very good point.  I agree with you but should the fact that people pay a good amount of money to be part of a private club play a factor?

Not trying to be a smart ass,but not many clubs are really run for the members' benefit.

[Tim Nugent]

Rick, you keep saying "a private club I visit".  Does this mean you are a member of the club or just a "visitor' - whatever that means?

I believe your "problem" stems from a lack of communication.  I laud the club for offering time for the local HS team.  One club I recently did some work at had 3 or 4 HS's and enlarged their range tee to accomodate them.

Private clubs have always provided access for local HS's.  It goes to being a member of the local community.  Golf, unlike other sports, has a history of charity and giving back. Instead of grumbling about it, you should be beaming that you see 30 young men/women lined up to play.  I always love to see the HS teams and the energy they bring at clubs.

As for Maintenance Mondays, if you want great conditions all summer long, you have to 1)give the course a break - remember it is a living organism, and 2) give the crew some time to do some invasive work.  Until you have worked on a grounds crew, you don't realize just how difficult it is to get anything done when you have to constantly stop and let the golfers play. Tomorrow at work, try this - work for 5 minutes then stop for 5 min, all day long. See how much you can get done.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,
That is a very good point.  I agree with you but should the fact that people pay a good amount of money to be part of a private club play a factor?

If you live in New Jersey and can not find a club that makes you happy perhaps a good amount of money was not enough.

[Carl Johnson]

I wrote this post a few weeks ago and since that post  I was greeted by a new surprise - the club now has acquired the local high school golf team.  I know high school golf is awesome for many kids, its just when I show up at the club and 30 kids are waiting on the tee box and the members were never notified, I have a problem.  An already crowded course just went to its weekdays from 3 to 6 having 9 holes filled because the golf teams in this part of NJ are big.  

Rick, a quick question.  Who is making these decisions for your private club?  Is it a member-elected board?  A manager hired by the member-elected board or a golf committee appointed by the board?  An outside management company?  Regardless, communications are key.  I agree with you that at a minimum members should have been informed, in advance, about the limitations on their play that would result from the high school team's practice.  I am assuming that this was not a one-off situation, but the beginning of a program of regular daily practices for the season from 3 to 6.  Correct?

[Roger Wolfe]

I don't mean to discourage high school golf because its the backbone of our future in golf.  I guess my question to the group or should I say gripe, is the fact that the private club I visit sometimes is closed all day every Monday(including the range), has allowed a lot of members, and now has filled their afternoon weekdays up from 3 to 6 without notifying its members.  I was just wondering if most of your private clubs do the same?

Did you call to check for availability (like you always should).  Do you read the newsletter?  Do you delete the emails without reading them.  Do you peruse the web site?  My son couldn't ride the Pirates of the Caribbean because of unscheduled maintenance.  Yes, he cried and complained... but he's 6.

Golf course staff are sometimes forced to make decisions that will be only be unpopular to a small group of members.  They are not going to send out a member email when they schedule (or re-schedule) a high school match that only affects Mr. and Mrs Havacamp.  We encourage all members to call the golf course FIRST whenever they are coming out.

Geez...

[JMEvensky]

Roger,with all due respect,this is what leads to members complaining that the club is run for the employees' benefit.

You are 100% correct that a member should make himself aware of the schedule.However,in my experience,it's a "small group of members" who make the decisions--usually in such a way as to ensure that it's THEIR small group of members who are least inconvenienced.

High school teams should certainly be supported whenever possible.But,when dues paying members are forced to play 2nd fiddle to non-members,a lot of resentment builds up.The usual next step is resignations.

Not all the reasons for a club allowing high school teams are so selflessly charitable.Frequently,it's done because some member's son plays.There's nothing inherently wrong with it--let's just remember that this particular member wouldn't be so enthusiastic if A) he was reimbursing the club for the expenses(range balls,etc.),and B) the matches were played on the days he usually does.

[jeffwarne]

I wrote this post a few weeks ago and since that post  I was greeted by a new surprise - the club now has acquired the local high school golf team.  I know high school golf is awesome for many kids, its just when I show up at the club and 30 kids are waiting on the tee box and the members were never notified, I have a problem.  An already crowded course just went to its weekdays from 3 to 6 having 9 holes filled because the golf teams in this part of NJ are big.  

Rick,
Are you a member at this club?

[Mark Saltzman]

Rick,

To answer your original question, I hardly believe that "tee access" is what makes a private club different than a public one.  My parents belong to a club that you can't just walk-on.  If you want to play before noon, you need a tee-time.  That being said, conditioning is top notch, rounds are always played in under 4hrs 15 min and the overall atmosphere of the club is great.  Compare this to many public golf courses where you feel like you are being herded through on an assembly line and a 5hr round is about average.  Sure it's great to be able to walk on to the 1st at any time, but too many members is not really a problem.

Mark

[JC Jones]

Did you call to check for availability (like you always should).  Do you read the newsletter?  Do you delete the emails without reading them.  Do you peruse the web site?  My son couldn't ride the Pirates of the Caribbean because of unscheduled maintenance.  Yes, he cried and complained... but he's 6.

Golf course staff are sometimes forced to make decisions that will be only be unpopular to a small group of members.  They are not going to send out a member email when they schedule (or re-schedule) a high school match that only affects Mr. and Mrs Havacamp.  We encourage all members to call the golf course FIRST whenever they are coming out.

Geez...

Funny and yet also great points.

[jeffwarne]

I don't mean to discourage high school golf because its the backbone of our future in golf.  I guess my question to the group or should I say gripe, is the fact that the private club I visit sometimes is closed all day every Monday(including the range), has allowed a lot of members, and now has filled their afternoon weekdays up from 3 to 6 without notifying its members.  I was just wondering if most of your private clubs do the same?

 My son couldn't ride the Pirates of the Caribbean because of unscheduled maintenance.  Yes, he cried and complained... but he's 6.

Roger your son won't make it as a member till he cries about scheduled maintenance too..........