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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jamie Barber

Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2011, 12:13:05 PM »
What should be the 10th at Princes if the owners ever get into their thick skulls that 27 holes does not not a course make.  
[img]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/PRINCES%20GC/071.jpg?t=1278427288[img]
What's your thinking on that one? I find it a surprising choice. You rarely see anyone in it except the player who has hit a poor drive and then mishits an attempted long recovery. The stronger players carry the dog log from where it's a mid iron to the green. In fact I was surprised it wasn't moved closer to the green in the bunker renovations of the last 2 years. For me that hole is all about it's length, the shape green which means it's hard both to hit and awkward to get up and down.

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2011, 04:53:11 PM »
David
What course are those photos from that you posted?

James, they look more like Lomandra plants to me :-)

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2011, 05:38:11 PM »
  Winner



Aw, Gray you're just a Cruden Bay gigolo....

Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2011, 05:40:33 PM »
How about Brora?  Where else can you find a proto bunker, complete with wool and sheep shit?

Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Bill Satterfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2011, 06:25:56 PM »
Here are a few bunker pics I've taken that I like:

Old Works 6th:




Ballyneal 5th:




Oakmont Church Pews:



Sleepy Hollow 2nd:






Matthew Mollica

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2011, 09:55:57 PM »
Love the sheep's scrape-out at Brora.

A slightly less formal version of this one to the left of the 18th green at Greg Norman's Moonah course at The National.


These two owe much to their surrounds.

This to the right of the 17th green at Royal Melbourne West.

Glorious meld from sharp formal lines at the green edge, to blending seamlessly with the adjoining vegetation.

This to the rear of the 15th green at Cape Kidnappers.


Not many bunkers afford a 300 foot drop to a watery grave with a mis-step from the back lip!

MM
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 10:18:05 PM by Matthew Mollica »
"The truth about golf courses has a slightly different expression for every golfer. Which of them, one might ask, is without the most definitive convictions concerning the merits or deficiencies of the links he plays over? Freedom of criticism is one of the last privileges he is likely to forgo."

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2011, 10:03:50 PM »
How about Brora?  Where else can you find a proto bunker, complete with wool and sheep shit?



Now THAT is a bunker!!
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Ryan Admussen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2011, 10:09:51 PM »
Kawartha - Great course with even better bunkers.






Mike Hogan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2011, 11:38:32 PM »
Bunker on Old Mac #16.



Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2011, 11:44:18 PM »
too small again.
Bayside's 11th currently my Facebook profile pic.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 11:52:47 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2011, 11:01:20 AM »
Great catch posting the bunker on the 3rd at Woking.

The hole is a model for less can be more. An interesting and challenging mid-length par 4 with a single greenside bunker.

Bob

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2011, 11:27:43 AM »
Great catch posting the bunker on the 3rd at Woking.

The hole is a model for less can be more. An interesting and challenging mid-length par 4 with a single greenside bunker.

Bob

Bob,
I look at that photo and I see a bunker that works perfectly for all pin placements on that hole, and even if the green were enlarged to accomodate large amounts of play at say a public course, it would still work incedibly well.

I see holes with 4,5,6 (0r 2 really big ones) bunkers green side over and over again.
In today's day and age at the big budget courses not only are there way too many acres of maintained sand, but they're all hand raked!
Such an incredible waste of resources, man hours, and ....strategy
I'd just like to see 60-70 % less bunkers and the ones that were left would be worthy of your attention.
As a good bunker player, they never enter my mind as far as strategy and even if they did I don't know how I'd play around them at many places as they're there to simply collect a poor shot.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Pete Garvey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2011, 03:21:00 PM »
This is Hole #5 at Idle Hour, a 1924 Donald Ross designed course in Lexington, KY.  The hole features 9 bunkers and plays only 317 yards uphill.  A great risk/reward hole!  Enjoy.



jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2011, 06:16:56 PM »
This is Hole #5 at Idle Hour, a 1924 Donald Ross designed course in Lexington, KY.  The hole features 9 bunkers and plays only 317 yards uphill.  A great risk/reward hole!  Enjoy.




Pete,
i guess we disagree. (see above)
9 bunkers?
If it had 8 would the strategy change?
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2011, 06:26:50 PM »
Great catch posting the bunker on the 3rd at Woking.

The hole is a model for less can be more. An interesting and challenging mid-length par 4 with a single greenside bunker.

Bob

Bob

Yes, I am all about less is more with bunkering.  I am bored by bunkers so its good to see the odd one which really makes a statement of its purpose.  If anything, the bunker of the 12th at Huntercombe is even better because the green slopes away and to the right making the drive position that much more critical than the Woking example.  Huntercombe is such a cool course that its my major litmus teste for deciding if I trust someone's opinion on architecture or not.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Pete Garvey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2011, 06:46:02 PM »
Great catch posting the bunker on the 3rd at Woking.

The hole is a model for less can be more. An interesting and challenging mid-length par 4 with a single greenside bunker.

Bob

Bob,
I look at that photo and I see a bunker that works perfectly for all pin placements on that hole, and even if the green were enlarged to accomodate large amounts of play at say a public course, it would still work incedibly well.

I see holes with 4,5,6 (0r 2 really big ones) bunkers green side over and over again.
In today's day and age at the big budget courses not only are there way too many acres of maintained sand, but they're all hand raked!
Such an incredible waste of resources, man hours, and ....strategy
I'd just like to see 60-70 % less bunkers and the ones that were left would be worthy of your attention.
As a good bunker player, they never enter my mind as far as strategy and even if they did I don't know how I'd play around them at many places as they're there to simply collect a poor shot.

Jeff, do you propose that all classics remove 60-70% of their bunkers?  I think Mr. Ross knew what he was doing.  If cost is a factor, then clubs should just not maintain them.  Never remove.   Every bunker has its place whether strategic or aesthetic. And, as a golf professional, properly placed fairway bunkers always get my attention.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2011, 07:07:33 PM »


Jeff, do you propose that all classics remove 60-70% of their bunkers?  I think Mr. Ross knew what he was doing.  If cost is a factor, then clubs should just not maintain them.  Never remove.   Every bunker has its place whether strategic or aesthetic. And, as a golf professional, properly placed fairway bunkers always get my attention.


While I am not a big fan of having eight or nine bunkers per hole, I must say I like Pete's reasoning here.  I can't fathom why wanting to spend less on bunker maintenance necessitates an architectural intervention [i.e., removing bunkers].

Why can't clubs just spend less $$$ maintaining the bunkers they've got?

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2011, 07:35:46 PM »
Probably my all-time favorite, the 6th at Hardelot:


Runner-up the 6th at St Enodoc:


Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2011, 07:40:08 PM »
I recently visited two courses in one town, a private and public.  Being nosy, I asked each how much they spent on bunker maintenance. One was about $50K, the other more than 3X that (the private club, of course)

On the day I visited, the bunkers looked identical in maintenance.  The difference was that the public course raked the bunkers mechanically 3 days week.  The private club raked by hand 7 days a week, trimmed the edges, etc.

The reason?  What if Mr. Member wants to entertain a client on Tuesday, a non rake day?  Should his guest have to take a chance on playing out of a unraked area of a bunker?

Time, number of times raked, method all add up.  And all because perhaps one guest might hit in a few square inches affected by one of the earlier ten rounds that day, or a statistical 0.5% chance of it happening. An even lesser chance, unless the guy is a real stickler, of ruining his day or any particular business deal.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2011, 08:10:10 PM »
Tom Doak,

I know you mentioned in the Alps thread about how the bunker at St. Edonoc used to be less formal and was more in play. Did it run all the way down to that pot bunker? Was that pot bunker always there? It does seem a shame that a bunker so grand should see so little play.

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2011, 08:21:54 PM »
I especially like the bunkering at Holston Hills









Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2011, 10:39:30 PM »
My first attempt at posting a picture, so I hope it works.  There is no way I am alone in loving this one ...Merion #13 front bunker


jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2011, 11:15:44 PM »
Great catch posting the bunker on the 3rd at Woking.

The hole is a model for less can be more. An interesting and challenging mid-length par 4 with a single greenside bunker.

Bob

Bob,
I look at that photo and I see a bunker that works perfectly for all pin placements on that hole, and even if the green were enlarged to accomodate large amounts of play at say a public course, it would still work incedibly well.

I see holes with 4,5,6 (0r 2 really big ones) bunkers green side over and over again.
In today's day and age at the big budget courses not only are there way too many acres of maintained sand, but they're all hand raked!
Such an incredible waste of resources, man hours, and ....strategy
I'd just like to see 60-70 % less bunkers and the ones that were left would be worthy of your attention.
As a good bunker player, they never enter my mind as far as strategy and even if they did I don't know how I'd play around them at many places as they're there to simply collect a poor shot.

Jeff, do you propose that all classics remove 60-70% of their bunkers?  I think Mr. Ross knew what he was doing.  If cost is a factor, then clubs should just not maintain them.  Never remove.   Every bunker has its place whether strategic or aesthetic. And, as a golf professional, properly placed fairway bunkers always get my attention.

Pete,
That's a good question.
No I'm not proposing that classic courses remove 60-70 % of their bunkering.
Reason, because they'd just have to spend more money again in a couple decades on the restoration....

Seriously though, I didn't mean for that to be a criticism of the hole, rather, I just found it ironic that I was glorifying a hole with a clever use of one bunker and you post one with 9.

!924 was a period quite similar to 1995-2005 where a lot of courses were built in boom times and maintenance budgets skyrocketed because they could(or more accurately because they thought they could)
A lot of bunkers were removed in the 30's and 40's and I'm sure a bunch will be now.
I'm not sure that's what should happen, but no doubt it will happen.
Certainly if you only have one cleverly placed bunker on a hole, it has better chance of surviiving removal than being one of nine.

A course that bunkers are used sparingly, yet memorably, will stand a much better chance of weathing a lean time.
As Tom Doak stated,of course you can (and in my opinion should) maintain them less, but once you've gone to less, but have 100 bunkers, you're still going to be spending a lot more time on them than the course with 25 (if they've gone to less)


I do believe that a hole that has good strategy with 1-2 bunkers is more appealing, but I'm certainly not opposed to bunkering.
It does seem to be eye candy for many and it certainly isn't a natural hazard in many locales. (hard to believe anyone would brag about where they imported their sand from, but I digress)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 11:24:12 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Bunker Photo Thread
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2011, 03:11:55 AM »
Jeff

Its the same old same old, some folks concentrate on style and some on placement.  While it could never be said that if placement is the real issue and would if given enough thought necessitate fewer bunkers, I do believe that in true strategic architecture that fewer bunkers fits the mandate.  That isn't to say that some of the holes on a course can't be more of the penal type and utilize more bunkers, but in the main I beleive the best strategic holes are fairly lean on bunkering.  The only archie I know of that was able to combine beauty and strategy/placement to the highest level while still concentrating on getting the most from a bunker was Simpson.  For sure I am biased, but his approach to bunkering (which is accentuated by his style of greens) is miles out there ahead of anybody past or present. 

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing