Out and Back Features Stoneforest International; China; Schmidt and Curley

[Adam Clayman]

http://www.out-and-back.net/?p=2617

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Nice rock formations. I do enjoy a par 4 and especially a par 5 once a round that includes this strategic defense. Beautiful hole Adam

[Lester George]

Fantastic stuff!

Lester

[Adam Clayman]

Only Fossil Trace comes close to such a unique environment. I've never been to FT, but those pictures of this landscape are amazing.

China must have a diversity of terrain unlike any other. Has anyone been over there and seen anything else as unique?

[Jeff Doerr]

Very nice overview Tom.

[Ryan Farrow]

Here are a few more photos Tom did not post on his website, thought you would all enjoy a bit more....

C Course #12. Island Green Par 3  (just a little different from the usual)


C Course #11. Driveable par 4, the green site is surrounded in rock, Tom posted the tee shot on his website, quite a bit more room to land your ball around the green than the picture indicates, tees sit atop of a ridge, playing downhill.


C Course #6. 420 yard par 4, one of many really good golf holes in the Pine Forest, not the Stone Forest.


C Course #8. The fairway features a centerline bunker then snakes through a few large stone formations on each side.


A Course #2.



You guys can see the full set on my Flickr account here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24895187@N02/sets/72157626046288214/



Adam, the terrain in China is just a diverse as it is in the United States, but I don't think any place is quite as unique as Stone Forest. The Karst mountains in Guilin are breathtaking but you will never have the kind of intimate playing experiences that you do at Stone Forest. But China comes packed with all the other stuff typically found in the US: sand dunes, cliff top coastline, boulders, grasslands, snowcapped mountains, sides of mountains on 2 to 1 slopes and of course farmland.

Guilin, China:

[Philippe Binette]

if it was in north america, it would be a lawsuit waiting to happen

[Tom Dunne]

Great photos, Ryan. I'll take the "I think" off the credit now that I know they're yours. What's the surrounding area and Kunming City like?  

[Jim Nugent]

Looks incredible.  How does it play?  e.g., do the stone formations come into play a lot?  Is it easy to find your balls?  Is the course a good one, in the ways people on this website often value? 

[Ryan Farrow]

Thanks Tom,

The immediate surrounding area is very similar,  littered with these  stone formations. about 20 minutes from the course is the Stone Forest Park which is part of UNESCO World Heritage Site  of the South China Karst. Attracts over 3 million visitors a year.

The city of Kunming is over an hour away, but its really a neat town great year round climate, its at a high elevation but far south... about 70-80 degrees almost year round.... great weather.



Jim, the pictures are pretty deceiving, I climbed all over the place to try and capture the rock formations as much as i could.... Its what makes the courses, and I really wanted the pictures to be more about the rock, then the golf.

There are 3 courses here and most of the pictures were taken of the most dramatic and rockiest areas of the "C" course. i played 36 holes on the "A" & "B" courses and did not face one shot where I had a large rock outcrop in front of me... Outside of the large stone, the out of play areas are not littered with rock.... Its either big rock, or no rock... unlike a place like Rock Creek where there are lots of smaller rocks that dot the native areas....

I think the courses are great, a little biased but its really a unique experience, I tend to think most of the guys on this site would like the course, but 99% of them don't give a hoot about China..... but the architects do!

[Tim Nugent]

if it was in north america, it would be a lawsuit waiting to happen

Isn't that just a sad commentary on just how far we have fallen as a nation?

I find the contrast of textures amazing.  Great Stuff. Go to the China exhibit at Epcot to see all the diverse environments they have.

[Garland Bayley]

This is the area of China that is featured in many of their classical Chinese paintings. I am confident that many Chinese in America would find this to be a rape of their cultural heritage.

[paul cowley]

This is the area of China that is featured in many of their classical Chinese paintings. I am confident that many Chinese in America would find this to be a rape of their cultural heritage.

Phillippe and Garland...forget the karst, you now have me dealing with the angst of what we have insensitively done to Mt Rushmore and those galloping [Confederate no less!] generals on Stone Mountain...where they even highlight what they have done with nightly laser shows!

I think I will go out in my backyard and hold hands with my cat in a moment of silence!

[Adam Clayman]

Paul, If you have a cat with hands, you should be set for life.

As for the liability issue, It's probably not one. When things are that apparent, people are aware of the risk and take precaution. Same reason no one gets beaned at TOC.

[Ryan Farrow]

This is the area of China that is featured in many of their classical Chinese paintings. I am confident that many Chinese in America would find this to be a rape of their cultural heritage.

Garland,

what paintings are you speaking of? I'm pretty sure your confused with Guilin.

 I think we would all be better served letting the Chinese decide for themselves how they best use their land. It is not as if a foreign owned operation came in, bought the land and developed a golf course against the will of the people. Lets not forget, Chinese owners, investors, Chinese golfers and club members, Chinese operations and Chinese government approvals.....

Maybe they will ask you for approval next time?

[paul cowley]

Ryan...you are becoming wise in the ways grasshopper!

[Garland Bayley]

This is the area of China that is featured in many of their classical Chinese paintings. I am confident that many Chinese in America would find this to be a rape of their cultural heritage.

Garland,

what paintings are you speaking of? I'm pretty sure your confused with Guilin.

 I think we would all be better served letting the Chinese decide for themselves how they best use their land. It is not as if a foreign owned operation came in, bought the land and developed a golf course against the will of the people. Lets not forget, Chinese owners, investors, Chinese golfers and club members, Chinese operations and Chinese government approvals.....

Maybe they will ask you for approval next time?

You are right, I may have confused the stone forest with Guilin. However, the rocks resemble those seen in Chinese paintings. Perhaps the rock are more like what would be found in a Suchow (sp?) garden, also featured in Chinese painting.

I made no comment about my approval or not. I commented on the fact that there are Chinese people that find the placement of golf courses in this landscape as highly objectionable. I know this to be a fact, because that is the reaction I get from showing the pictures to Chinese.

[Ryan Farrow]

Garland, I could understand why some would object to the land use... I for one, think if there was enough demand, the course should close down once a week and open up as a park, much like the old course.... but the fact is, there is plenty of this kind of this landscape around to support millions of visitors every year.

Below is a picture of the park:



As you can see there was obviously work done around the rock formations, Formal grass areas that must be maintained.... Is this any different from a golf course?

The routings at Stone Forest were extremely gentle on the land, no large rock formations were disturbed and fairways were laid out where they fit the land in open clearings. Its not as if we just bulldozed through the rocks that got in our way. And because of this, there are a couple rough green to tee connections and some blind shots.....

Nothing was destroyed, and certainly the land was not raped. Certainly not anymore so than the villagers in the surrounding areas that farm this beautiful landscape....

Just FYI, below are some landscape paintings of Guilin.

[Garland Bayley]

This is the area of China that is featured in many of their classical Chinese paintings. I am confident that many Chinese in America would find this to be a rape of their cultural heritage.

Phillippe and Garland...forget the karst, you now have me dealing with the angst of what we have insensitively done to Mt Rushmore and those galloping [Confederate no less!] generals on Stone Mountain...where they even highlight what they have done with nightly laser shows!

I think I will go out in my backyard and hold hands with my cat in a moment of silence!

Paul,

Sorry about your angst and your abuse of your cat. I dread what may happen to the cat as I bring you the news that I am confident there are many Oregonians that consider the creation of Bandon Dunes to be a raping of their public heritage and tradition of coastal lands belonging to the people.

[paul cowley]

This is the area of China that is featured in many of their classical Chinese paintings. I am confident that many Chinese in America would find this to be a rape of their cultural heritage.

Phillippe and Garland...forget the karst, you now have me dealing with the angst of what we have insensitively done to Mt Rushmore and those galloping [Confederate no less!] generals on Stone Mountain...where they even highlight what they have done with nightly laser shows!





I think I will go out in my backyard and hold hands with my cat in a moment of silence!

Paul,

Sorry about your angst and your abuse of your cat. I dread what may happen to the cat as I bring you the news that I am confident there are many Oregonians that consider the creation of Bandon Dunes to be a raping of their public heritage and tradition of coastal lands belonging to the people.

Animal abuse...Public Heritage rape...Cultural Heritage rape....what a violent world!

We have now started a prayer circle for Oregon and China, but Bo, my outdoor part bobcat mix, rejects any victimization preferring instead to live free.

[Michael Dugger]

This is the most exciting set of images I've seen in some time.

Fabulous stuff.  Good golf features are great, but nothing beats a spectacular setting.

Those rock formations are phenomenal.  Hats off to Schmidt and Curley et al!!!