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cary lichtenstein

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Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2011, 01:13:21 PM »


Thanks for increasing the awareness and sharing your Aspergers. My grandson, 12 has Aspergers. He is very smart, 131 IQ, very quirky, and lots of fun to be with. His parents have their hands full with "issues", but he's a love. Bringing awareness to others about Aspergers, why kids are so quirky or different, helps a ton.

Thanks again

Cary
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2011, 06:56:56 PM »
John Kirk,

I am uncertain of something from reading your essay. Have you actually been diagnosed with Aspergers, or did you diagnose yourself from doing your own research? I have good friends whose son suffers from Aspergers. I would say you function far far higher than he does.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #77 on: February 25, 2011, 07:15:25 PM »
No, I have not been diagnosed with Asperger's, and I'm not sure I have Asperger's syndrome.  However, I exhibit many of the same traits as those who do, and scored very close (30) to an arbitrary line where 80% of people who score 32 or higher are diagnosed as having Asperger's.

Perhaps that was not clear enough in the essay.  I will mention it to the doctor the next time I see him, but I'm not sure it's necessary to pursue it any further.

I'm not sure what value this all has.  I was trying to suggest that that I obsess over a few things, and as self-centered as it may seem, I think it helps me have a keen eye (or ear) for detail.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2011, 09:05:22 PM »
John,

Great essay and thanks for sharing.  You've got me thinking now about all those strat-o-matic games and stats I scribbled in notebooks back in the day.  I'm going to have to dig into the Ipod blog and try and poke some holes in there if possible.  I'm currently struggling with storing WAV files on my new Synology NAS drive and what it means for my ipod/car setup.  I'll IM you with comments when I have 'em....

Brad,

Nice post.  Your thoughts are always valued even if you did rip my old home club a new one!  In hindsight, that was actually the event that got me thinking more critically about GCA.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #79 on: February 25, 2011, 09:11:42 PM »
You know John, no offense, but people who suffer from Aspergers really suffer. If you have a borderline case of any disaese, I feel for you, but before you claim to be afflicted, why don't you find out. For all I can tell, you're just a hypochondriac looking for an excuse.

I said "no offense", and I mean that. But knowing a family that has to deal with this affliction on a daily basis, in my opinion, you're out of line at this time.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2011, 09:34:26 PM »
This thread sure has gone off the rails.

BTW - I'm pretty sure I have ADD.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2011, 09:42:27 PM by Ryan Potts »

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2011, 09:40:44 PM »
You know John, no offense, but people who suffer from Aspergers really suffer. If you have a borderline case of any disaese, I feel for you, but before you claim to be afflicted, why don't you find out. For all I can tell, you're just a hypochondriac looking for an excuse.

I said "no offense", and I mean that. But knowing a family that has to deal with this affliction on a daily basis, in my opinion, you're out of line at this time.

John Cullum:

I would have to say that I think it is you who are out of line.  Human personality and human traits exist on a spectrum.  Yes, many folks with severe Aspergers do really suffer.  John Kirk is not denying that.  He is pointing out that he shares some or even many traits with Aspergers syndrome.  I saw nowhere that he diminished the tragedy of those who are severely suffering...but John, himself, indicates that some of these traits may have contributed to difficulties in his own life, even if they don't measure up to the devastating difficulties of a severe Aspie.

Everyone is a critic to some degree...if you have any opinion at all, you are a critic.  

Bart

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2011, 10:39:22 PM »
Sorry Bart, But I'm not going to be an enabler. We all have some screwed up traits. John K has had a pretty good life by any man's account. I would prefer that someone else call him out on it, but most of the participant's on golfclubatlas.com won't call out a guy who has the proper club affiliations. I have been a participant on this sight for a long time, and I have gotten to the point where I let others fight the battles, but sometimes the old sarge just needs to come in and say what has to be said
"We finally beat Medicare. "

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2011, 10:45:04 PM »
I think my essay accurately identifies myself with Asperger-like traits, and does not conclude I have Asperger's.

"I also exhibit many other listed symptoms.   I took an online Autism Spectrum Quotient test, and scored near that arbitrary line where those who score higher are typically identified as "Aspies".  I read the book “Parallel Play" by Tim Page, a man with Asperger's Syndrome who struggled to find his place in society, but is now a recognized music critic and professor of musicology.  His condition is more severe; he struggles with depression and anxiety, whereas I’ve learned to combat depression with physical exercise and menial tasks.  Tim Page’s writing is beautiful, more refined and eloquent than I could hope for."

This has turned out to be a more sensitive subject than I imagined.  My reasons for writing the piece are complex, but they have their origins in two of John Kavanaugh's threads ("Why would someone want to play with you?" and "Are you a critic?"), plus the global warming thread.  

"Bared my soul to the crowd eh but oh what the cost
Most of them laughed out loud like nothing's been lost
There were hypocrites and parasites and people that drain
Tell me why must I always explain."

-- Van Morrison, "Why Must I Always Explain?"

I was angry when I first wrote this, and modified it later.  There are many examples of successful people who were identified as having Asperger's, and the listed symptoms are so consistent with my personality traits that I see no need to investigate further.  In fact, thinking about all this the last two or three months has made me half crazy.  Half.
 
I wrote a story for this website, one that makes people think.  This site is to "promote frank commentary on golf course architecture."  I'm happy to have prompted some serious discussion about the role of a critic, and the nature of course analysis.

And Sarge, I modified things a bit so they didn't seem so angry.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 01:25:04 AM by John Kirk »

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2011, 09:01:34 AM »
John

I don't want you to be angry, and I don't want to insult you or offend you.

For the record, I will only continue this discussion in a more private forum
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Mike Sweeney

Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2011, 06:53:42 PM »
Maybe a re-statement, but as the father of an Autistic son, I appreciated John's essay and I thought his position and/or lack of position in the Autism/Aspergers world was appropriately stated.

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2011, 07:38:03 PM »
Intereesting thread. I took the test and scored 20:

Your score: 20
0 - 10 = low
11 - 22 = average (most women score about 15 and most men score about 17)
23 - 31 = above average
32 - 50 is very high (most people with Asperger Syndrome or high-functioning autism score about 35)
50 is maximum

Link to the test that John references:

http://glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/AutismSpectrumQuotient/AutismSpectrumQuotient.aspx

 


JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2011, 08:42:31 PM »
9 here.  Interesting test.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2011, 10:04:34 PM »
You have to score 28 or higher to join Golf Club Atlas.

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2011, 10:12:02 PM »
29 here, though such a self-administered quiz is a weak and only vaguely suggestive diagnostic device.

Never did Strat-o-Matic baseball but had memorized all of the relevant stats in baseball and knew every stadium inside and out by the time I was 10 or 11 -- including field dimensions and seating capacity, and would draw them to scale thanks to a wonderful little guide book I got from MLB that also enabled me to build a scale model ball park with wood when I was about 13.

Then I turned to inventing my own golf board game with dice and specially created golf courses that I drew up to scale for the occasion -- based upon the best of the Met area (NY) or other golf holes i saw, watched on TV and read about.

Luckily, I gave all of that up to become a responsible adult and laborer.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 07:40:34 AM by Brad Klein »

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #90 on: February 26, 2011, 10:29:28 PM »
(delete - unnecessary)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 10:46:26 PM by John Kirk »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #91 on: February 26, 2011, 10:53:39 PM »
delete unnecessary
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #92 on: February 26, 2011, 11:13:27 PM »
Although I skipped a grade, invented a solitaire baseball game played with five dice (anybody else a fan of "The Universal Baseball Association?") and memorized all the sorority house phone numbers, I scored 18.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2011, 01:14:12 AM »
You have to score 28 or higher to join Golf Club Atlas.

Probably why I love playing golf with a good caddy.

He just tells me where to hit it....and I do my best to comply.

Sitting there thinking about it is not my idea of fun.

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2011, 02:01:54 AM »
33.  No surprise. 

I need to play some golf.  Getting my golf fix only through the internet is driving me crazy.  Even my friends want me to get home so I'll stop emailing them about golf chat rooms. 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2011, 07:26:55 AM »
Wow - I scored 28 - a huge surprise.  I know I have issues, but nothing that I would consider serious or in anyway a hinderance to carrying on with life.  I wonder about the validity of this quickie.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2011, 11:20:14 AM »
30... not a huge surprise i guess...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #97 on: February 27, 2011, 11:31:16 AM »
Is it possible we do a disservice to those actually afflicted if we run and self-diagnose ourselves using an internet test?

Not everyone who is quirky, OCD about a few things, enjoyed baseball cards and making up games before television and internet killed imagination, and doesn't like parties should be diagnosed with Aspergers. And, not every child who is exposed to television from birth and thus bored when he has to sit in front of a teacher writing on the board automatically has A.D.H.D.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2011, 03:40:22 PM »
I am asonished at the breadth of opinion my son receives in portfolio reviews of his artwork by college professors and in conjunction with pieces submitted for local, regional and national competitions.  I can't help but wonder if art criticism is far more complicated and subjective than the criticism of golf course architecture.  After all, isn't golf course architecture more science than art? I also can't help but wondering that if I am so ignorant as to what constitutes fine art, must I also be far more clueless about golf course architecture than I care to admit.  

My first inclination is to ask is if it's easier to be "wrong" when criticizing art than golf course architecture.  What a stupid and clumsy question.   After all isn't golf course architecture more science than art?

While I rarely offer insight on this web-site, invariably I find that few of the posters that I actually have had the privilege to play with demonstrate the kind of passion about golf course architecture that I experience.  From a character trait standpoint I'm blessed to be both expressive and analytical and perhaps I fail to appreciate the  approach of the more stoic critic.  Not to say I don't enjoy their insight immensely.

Approaching my 53rd birthday, I've been studying golf courses for 40 years and believe I know a thing of two.  Does that make me a critic?  Probably not - merely a professional student.

Bogey
« Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 03:41:59 PM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Inside The Mind Of A Critic
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2011, 05:40:05 PM »
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

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