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Joe Bausch

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Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2011, 11:19:54 AM »
Even the 16GB version of the iPad easily handles that PDF. I read some of it on my recent trip to Tampa.

I've talked to Wayne about hot-linking the Table of Contents and making a version optimized for the iPad.  I've enjoyed my selective readings of it very much.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike Hendren

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Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2011, 09:20:31 AM »
Please provide background on the term "Nature Faker."

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mike Cirba

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2011, 12:06:16 PM »
Michael,

According to Tom Paul;

"Nature Faker" was a term Flynn used to refer to himself and quite often apparently. This was mentioned to us in an interview with his daughter. We liked the term anyway for a couple of reasons but that he used it himself made it all the more historically appropriate in our opinion.

Steve Lang;

Again, from Tom;

As to Steve Lang's remark about the inclusion of an explanation on the "Maintenance Meld" that is a good point and good question. Obviously Wayne liked the concept and felt it appropriate. I guess that's another reason the book grew to app 2,278 pages! It probably is somewhat appropriate since Flynn was also considered to be a true expert on trees, grasses, agronomy, maintenance and maintenance practices including those that might work towards influencing playability, shot values, shot requirements and strategies in various ways. After all he did come up through the ranks and profession of greenkeeping first.
 
One of his novel "maintenance meld" suggestions was to irrigate LZs on tee shots and such to slow the ball down (Flynn was obviously freaked out and fixated on the ball going too far and obsoleting design and architecture---hence his remark about the need for 8,000 yard courses some day if the ball was not properly controlled) and firm up approaches to create more strategic shot options into greens. The former is not exactly something I would've thought of or recommend for an Ideal Maintenance Meld on classic courses but Flynn did think of it. He obviously had a very active mind and imagination which is sort of ironic as he certainly never wrote very much about the things he was thinking; hence that may be one of several reasons he may not have been as well known as some think he might've been or should've been.


DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2011, 04:33:02 PM »
Please provide background on the term "Nature Faker."

Mike

Mike Hendren asks an interesting question, one I had wondered about myself, and one that I am not sure Mike Cirba quite answered.  "Faker" is generally a less than positive description of someone, and was explained to me sometime back by one more familiar with the general literature of early last Century, the phrase "nature faker" was far from complimentary.  

Ironically, "Nature Faker" was a derogatory description of writers who had tried to pass off sentimentalized and "sham" versions of natural history as truthful and factually based.  These writers depicted animals behaving with mannerisms remarkably human, and would present their depictions as wholly truthful and factual, even though their claims had never been verified through acceptable scientific procedures.  Oftentimes the claims about an animal's behavior were used to convey some strong sentimental viewpoint and moral message of the author.  As a later American Heritage article (linked below) put it, "Scientists sputtered."  

John Burroughs, a naturalist, got the controversy going in his 1903 titled "Real and Sham Natural History" in which he referred to such writing as "yellow journalism of he woods."   And it wasn't necessarily the writer's veracity or sincerity that Burrough's it was the unscientific, but the unverified nature of their claims.  After finally being convinced by mutual friends that one such "nature faker" truly believed that what he had written was accurate, Burroughs was unfazed and commented, "So now I think think of him as a mythomaniac."  

The actual phrase "Nature Faker" was not  coined until a few years later, in a 1907 article by Edward Clark called “Roosevelt on the Nature-Fakirs,” about President Teddy Roosevelt's low opinion of such sham natural histories.  President Roosevelt was reportedly a friend of Burroughs and wholly supported Burroughs' and his 1903 article, in which Burroughs had praised those whom he thought were doing sound scientific work and blasted those who he thought were not.

Works by these "mythomaniacs" and "nature fakers" were rightfully portrayed as decidedly unscientific in that they were oftentimes based on a single observation or experience of the author and had not verified by similar observations by other experts in the field.  Burrough's condemned one such book called "Animals I have Known" by proposing a changed title to "Animals I ALONE Have Known," strongly indicating that the observations in the book were neither verified nor verifiable.   Yet despite the lack of proper verification, these works were  being touted band true and accurate, were published on the cheap, and were being used in school curriculums!   Naturalists like Burroughs, Roosevelt, Casper Whitney, ornithologist Frank Chapman, and others that it was a travesty that children and the public were being deceived by these works.  

After years of public debate the Burroughs-Roosevelt side seems to have carried the day.  Such books were removed from science curriculums, and some of the mythomaniacal Nature Faker authors no longer published "natural history."  (At least one of the criticized authors, Jack London, is  still widely read although his work is often considered fiction rather than science or non-fiction.)   Looking back on about a quarter of the century later on these mythomaniacal "nature fakers, Robert E. Chapman, the ornithologist, wrote:

“We still have nature fakers with us, but today there is far less chance that the product of their pens will pass editorial censorship or deceive the public than there was when the former were keener for copy and the latter knew less about nature.”

Chapman was relying on the publishing and review process, along with greater scientific knowledge, to ferret out these "nature fakers."  Unfortunately such mechanisms have all but crumbled today.  With the internet, .pdf files, and "vanity" publishing houses, about anyone can pass of anything as a "published book" these days, whether or not it is accurate and/or has undergone true critical scrutiny.  This creates a very similar dilemma to the one faced by the likes of Burroughs, Roosevelt, Whitney, and Chapman obviously understood:  The search for truth and accuracy is never well served when one or a few authors claim to have established the truth based on unverified, unvetted, and unconfirmed observations, interpretations, and opinions.

Critical review, fact checking, and verification are necessary components of the truth seeking process, and if one circumvents that process through easy and cheap publication methods, then the search for true and accurate information will potentially take a wrong turn.  And thus there is great potential for modern day "Nature Fakers" and "mythomaniacs" in almost any endeavor of study, or anywhere else anyone claims to know the truth of claims shielded from critical analysis.   (There was an example of this recently on the global warming thread, where even though a certain scientist's claims had been thoroughly refuted, his continued to claim his views had legitimacy because he had supposedly corrected the errors and reached the same conclusions in a paper that had not yet been published in a properly reviewed publication.  This raises the issue of why wasn't the corrected version published after undergoing proper review?  Such questions should be asked of anything published without proper review.)  

Anyway, that is a bit of background on the phrase "nature faker" as it was used in the first part of last century and as it still applies today.

__________________________________________________

If anyone is further interested in the topic of "Sham Natural History" or "Nature Fakers" you can check out John Burrough's 1903 article "Real and Sham Natural Histories," which is available on Google Books, as is an article discussing the matter called "Reminiscences on John Borrows" by G. Clyde Fisher from the March-April 1921 issue of Natural History magazine.

Here is a link to a 1971 American Heritage article discussing the controversy from which some of the information and quotes are taken.    http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1971/2/1971_2_60.shtml   The same article notes that the phrase "nature faker" was common enough to have been placed in the "Dictionary of Americanisms."

There is also a book, published in 1990 and republished in 2001, called The Nature Fakers. It covers the topic in detail.  

[Interesting the title of this book is very similar to the .pdf/cd.  Did the authors know?  A Rights Clearance check at any reputable publisher probably have caught that.  Likewise, an editor at a reputable publishing house might have cautioned the authors of the .pdf/cd against saddling William Flynn with such a derogatory phrase.   But I guess at 2200 pages these guys weren't interested in what an editor might have had to say.]
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 04:41:37 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Mike Cirba

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2011, 04:49:23 PM »
David,

Actually, I think Flynn would have taken some very wry amusement and a bit of self-deprecating pleasure in his use of the term, and he was certainly aware of its controversial usage in popular culture.

Wouldn't he have seen his role as one who created a somewhat romanticized, idealized view of the natural world in his work, seeking to blend what is in essence, a landscape garden, harmoniously into its raw natural surrounds, and "faking" the eye of the beholder to create what should appear to them as a seamless whole?

I doubt he saw it as derogatory.


Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2011, 05:09:58 PM »
Mike/David - Perhaps more ironic than derogatory?

Kyle Harris

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2011, 05:29:12 PM »
Gents:

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Mike Cirba

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2011, 05:35:17 PM »
Dan,

Yes, no question.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2011, 05:59:17 PM »
Mike Cirba,

If you want to believe that Flynn would have wanted to intentionally associate himself with some quack writers who got shot down because, while they claimed to represent nature truthfully, their work was exposed as poor and inaccurate representations of nature, then be my guest.

But please don't pretend like you knew what Flynn was thinking, or what he "certainly would have known."  You don't even know whether or not he actually referred to himself in that way, so it is too much for you to pretend you know why.  

____________________________________________

Dan Herrmann,

Maybe.   But again, I am unaware of much basis for speculating about Flynn's mindset on this particular issue.  I am still wondering whether it is accurate to assume he did refer to himself as "Nature Faker."  

Or perhaps I have misunderstood and maybe you guys aren't speculating at all.
-- Does the .pdf/cd provide a sound basis for understanding why Flynn would want to associate himself with the discredited Nature Fakers?
-  Does the .pdf/cd cover how "Nature Faker" was a derogatory term referring to those who tried to redefine nature based on their own unverified observations and beliefs?   And that Flynn ironically embraced that term and referred to himself as a "Nature Faker?"
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Rick Shefchik

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Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2011, 06:25:04 PM »
There might be a musical corollary to this. You know the old joke: "Do you know when dinner is served?" "No, but hum a few bars and I'll fake it." Musicians actually pride themselves on their ability to fake a song for which they don't have sheet music. My father was a trumpet player who had a stack of "Fake Books" sitting around -- chords, lyrics and lead sheets for popular songs, but no arrangements as such. When he had time, he wrote arrangements or bought them for his band, but I think if you'd have called him a good faker, he'd have been flattered.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2011, 06:31:56 PM »
I would be amazed if Flynn was aware of a controversy involving sham vs. scientific naturalists at the turn of the century.
Isn't the description just a self deprecating way of saying that he moved dirt but wanted it to look like the result was designed by nature?

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2011, 06:32:36 PM »
Seems akin to a golf course architect today referring to practicing 'naturalism.'

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2011, 07:10:41 PM »
Cory Connaughton,

I tend to agree.  If Flynn actually did commonty refer to himself as "nature faker," then I would be very surprised if he had ever even heard of the "nature faker" controversy.  That is why I was surprised when Mike Cirba declared above that Flynn "was certainly aware of its controversial usage in popular culture," as if Flynn was playing off the controversy and making some sort of ironic statement about his work.

Michael Blake,  

Maybe.  But the term "naturalism" has definitely become a term of art today regarding golf course design.   But I doubt very much that "nature faker" was ever such a term of art regarding golf course design.   Casper Whitney not only wrote about nature and the "nature faker" controversy, he wrote about golf.  He was well aware of the negative connotation.

___________________________________

Anyway, I wasn't intending to get into whether Flynn actually said it, or his motivations.     Mike Hendren asked for the background on the term and I gave it to him.    I find the title extremely ironic, yet not necessarily for the reasons being discussed.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 07:28:04 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2011, 10:08:01 PM »
:<)) MCIRBA,

Please thank TEP for the explanation.  If that type of small subject integration with Flynn's attitude as described had been made, I wouldn't have raised the question.

Since this is an electronic work, are the authors going to take the varied review feedback items and start updating the electronic file?  Its only $35 to file a new copyright application... 
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2011, 10:55:54 PM »
Not that anyone is gifting, but for St. Patrick's Day, I would like the Morrison and Paul opponents to take a few minutes, maybe even a few weeks, and respect what the two of them have done in spending years of research time to put together the treatise on Flynn.

I feel like thinly veiled sarcasm like I see in the last few MacWood and Moriarty posts is not currently necessary.

I'm all for scholarly review, and nobody on GCA does it better than the M&M boys.  You both have a tenacity that rubs people the wrong way sometimes, but I think it ultimately gets us closer to the truth. 

I feel as though TEP and Wayne put a HUGE amount of work into this, and they were not firing through a group of barely-researched facts like some other books we have seen in the past few years.  I think our expert scholarly reviewers should be interested enough to buy the cd like many of us have, start a new thread, and have at it.

Petty differences aside, all 1500 of us are really interested in this stuff.  None of us would be here if we weren't.  It's unfortunate that Wayne and TEP probably will not join the dialogue, but things like challenging the fact that they chose a cd format, arguing the reasons for choosing a title, and insinuating the writers did not consult a reputable publisher are probably why we won't see them anytime soon.

Just my 2 cents (not that anyone is paying)....off to read some of the cd myself!
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2011, 01:02:28 AM »
Brad,   

This thread has been up and running for two weeks now.   Just how long is the blackout period before I am allowed to honestly answer a question or offer my opinion?
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Mike Cirba

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2011, 07:05:00 AM »
From Tom Paul;

When the authors titled "THE NATURE FAKER, William S. Flynn Golf Course Architect" they were not aware that "Nature Fakers" was a late 19th or early 20th century derogatory description for writers of or literature on natural history that tried to pass off sentimentalized and "sham" versions of natural history as truthful and factually based. The authors of this Flynn biography have no idea if Flynn had any knowledge of such a literary description or that some used the description derogatorily. The authors were told by a first hand source, Flynn's daughter, Connie, that her father frequently referred to himself that way apropos of his career in golf course architecture and related issues. As far as the authors of the Flynn biography know, William S. Flynn did not have a career in natural history or the literature of natural history and they did not try to speak to his knowledge or lack of knowledge of that. Flynn had an approximately 35-40 year career in golf, golf agronomy, golf course maintenance, golf course construction and golf course architecture and that is what the biography tried to concentrate on.
 
Again, the authors named the biography "The Nature Faker" because that is the term his daughter told us her father frequently used to refer to himself apropos of his career.
 
However, since the format of the biography does allow us to correct any significant errors and omissions and reissue in pdf.cd format, if it seems appropriate in the future perhaps we will reissue the biography with the title----"William S. Flynn, Golf Course Architect or Natural History "Faker" or Literary Mythomaniac?"


And from me...

I'll help Tom and Wayne answer legitimate questions here, but I'm not going to act as a courier to help perpetuate answers to insulting questions that are only going to engender more wasted, useless argument from the usual suspects.

Jealousy is a very strong emotion, and when blended with personal hatred is toxic and cancerous and seemingly never-ending.

There's enough of that here already.

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2011, 12:28:06 PM »
Mike Cirba,

Not sure what you are talking about.

Mike Hendren asked a question about the background of the phrase "Nature Faker" and unlike the authors I actually knew something about the common usage during Flynn's time so I provided that information.  I haven't been paying much attention, but I think my post on "nature fakers" may be the closest this thread has come to touching on anything of substance.  

As for this nonsense about you acting as a "courier" for insulting questions, you seem a bit confused.   Mike Hendren's question was NOT insulting in the least, and I have no interest in you acting as a courier between me and tepaul.  I get enough unsolicited, unwanted, and insulting garbage from tepaul on private email, and have no desire to hear from him here, there, or anywhere, whether directly or through you or anyone else.  

Besides, YOU are the one who proclaimed that Flynn "was certainly aware" of the  controversial usage of the phrase "nature faker" in popular culture, and YOU pretended to know that it was some ironic statement on his part.  So if anything tepaul was setting YOU straight.  

Frankly I don't know or care whether Flynn knew of its meaning and usage or even whether he himself used the phrase, and I am not at all surprised that "the authors" were unaware of the common usage of the phrase or that they didn't bother to look into it.  Nor am I surprised that they unwittingly chose a title which was commonly used during Flynn's time as a derogatory description of phony academics trying to pass off seriously flawed and unverified observations as fact.  

As for the bit about jealousy and personal hatred, I wouldn't know, but you seem to be speaking from experience so I'll take your word for it.  
« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 12:35:02 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Mike Cirba

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2011, 04:03:35 PM »
Steve Lang,

From Tom Paul;

"Since this is an electronic work, are the authors going to take the varied review feedback items and start updating the electronic file?"
 
Please tell Steve Lang in answer to the above that in theory and perhaps in practice we feel this is one aspect of the electronic medium that will give us far more latitude than the traditional print medium book to update, correct and revise if informational or factual issues appear to be significant and consequently necessary. It may have a minimal price attached to it but certainly nothing like having to republish a traditional print book or even distributing the traditional "erratum" notices or updates. 

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2011, 04:20:10 PM »
 How about MY copy? Will you update that?
AKA Mayday

Chris Cupit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2011, 05:34:38 PM »
Put me down as another satisfied customer :)

Thanks for the incredible effort guys.   

Mike Cirba

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #71 on: March 13, 2011, 11:23:06 PM »
Chris,



Great to hear you found the book enjoyable. 

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2011, 05:05:08 PM »
Put me down as 100% satisfied.  Extremely thorough effort!!!  Loved all the Flynn drawings and complete descriptions on the work he performed at each course!!!

As to the title of the book, if Tom and Wayne found through their research (talking to his daughter) that that is how he referred to himself, that is good enough for me!!

Chris
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 05:21:17 PM by Chris_Blakely »

Mike Cirba

Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2011, 05:12:06 PM »
Chris,

There is an amazing amount of original source material in the book, and I'm glad you found it so enjoyable!

As for the title, well....is a rose by any other name...?  ;)

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: William Flynn - "The Nature Faker", now in publication
« Reply #74 on: March 15, 2011, 09:38:52 PM »
Chris,

There is an amazing amount of original source material in the book, and I'm glad you found it so enjoyable!

As for the title, well....is a rose by any other name...?  ;)

Mike,

So far, I really really enjoy the book.  Obviously, I am not all the way through it.  But, I have made a point of reading the chapters on the Flynn courses that I have played.

Chris

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