[Dieter Jones]

My course used to have firm fast greens. about 3 years ago the club got access to virtually unlimited recycled water. They built a massive Dam, spent over a million bucks replacing the entire watering system and have spent the time since flooding the place to death. About once every 6 months the super and his crew remove uteloads of thatch and horizontal growth from the surface of the greens. They also vertidrain the greens 4 or 5 times a year. The greens are soft (we are in the middle of summer and 6 irons are leaving pitch marks at least half the depth of the ball. They are also nowhere near as fast as they used to be. There are clearly inferior to what they were 3 yeras ago.

The course committee has now decided that it is time for action. Rather than instructing the Super to stop the excessive watering of the greens (which they have been telling him to do for the past 3 years), they have decided to trial a change of grasses. A notice in last weeks club newsletter states that a trial of G2 creeping bentgrass will be conducted on the practice chipping green. The view is that if successful all greens will be replaced with this grass.

Before I approach the commitee about their crazy (my opinion) idea of spending lots of cash replacing all the greens with a new strain of grass (rather than fixing the cause of the problem in the overwatering) I wanted to get opinion on the G2. After all if we are stuck with the overwatering going forward then I'd rather have a grass that can handle it better.

I do not know what is currently on the greens. The climate whre we are is cool (winter daily max average 11-12 degrees celcius - summer average 21 degrees). Rainfall is consistent at around 50mm per month all year round.

Any supers out there or designers with experience in this grass? Any drawbacks? Does it sound suitable for a course that "has to look nice and green".

[Matt Day]

i'm not a super but we've been using G2 for new greens for a couple of years in a climate with hot and dry summers and mild, wet (sometimes) winters. It handles the heat pretty well with enough water, we are averaging over 3o clesius consistently through summer, with some days over 40.

Our experience is that for the first two to three years it is more tempremental that the pencross greens but once settled in provide a great surface. We did new greens in sod mainly from grass grown on site, but did seed a green as well.

This is on a high traffic public course where we are cutting at 3.5mm. I believe that G2 likes to be cut shorter than that though, it seems much more dense than pencross.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

     I would be interested to know if the unlimited water came with a requirement that it had to be used.  This would be a huge game changer in how the course is managed.  I'm sure the treated water is not at a quality that it can be released into a natural water system so your resivoir must be drawn down everday to make room for more.   In the ideal situation your course would have a large acreage of "out of the way" areas that the water could be applied to when the playing areas don't need it.  It that is not possible then the playing areas get watered even if they don't need it.  I would suspect the condition of the fairways has changed dramatically over the same period.   The other thing to consider is the recycled water is most likely bringing an organic component with it, ie free fertilizer.   So not only are you seeing a wetter course but thatch is becoming a bigger issure due to excess nutrient loading.  Getting a free sourse of water can be wonderful but it is rarely without a price.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Dieter,

It is hard to give advice without knowing more, but I will share my Texas experience with G2 - it takes the heat quite well.  I recall one course where the G2 we planted in the heat of July was stronger the next year than the greens we planted in early fall.  It is often typical in Texas that the G2 uses less water than the surrounding Bermuda.

I personally dislike the purplish color of G2 compared to some other bents, and it may encourage overwatering to get it to the green members may want.  It is an older variety, and I would have to think with study, you might find one better suited to your climate, but again, its hard to tell.  Almost any of the newer bents may need lots of de thatching if given too much water and too much N.

As I have said here, on my projects, we spend more time discussing grass varieties than in most college dorm rooms!  I am not sure how your course settled on G2, but I am sure you could be in for much more discussion before a decision is made!

[Dave Givnish]

Dieter

Take a look at what they are doing at Sagebrush in BC.  Maybe someone should have a conversation about the approach to watering before going through a grand experiment with new surfaces.

[jeffwarne]

The course committee has now decided that it is time for action. Rather than instructing the Super to stop the excessive watering of the greens (which they have been telling him to do for the past 3 years), they have decided to trial a change of grasses. A notice in last weeks club newsletter states that a trial of G2 creeping bentgrass will be conducted on the practice chipping green. The view is that if successful all greens will be replaced with this grass.

Rather than telling the super how to do his job, has the committee asked the super what he thinks should be done?
cause if he's not driving the bus, it's hard to blame him.
and if he is (and has been)driving the bus, perhaps something besides the grass needs to change

[James Bennett]

     I would be interested to know if the unlimited water came with a requirement that it had to be used.  This would be a huge game changer in how the course is managed.  I'm sure the treated water is not at a quality that it can be released into a natural water system so your resivoir must be drawn down everday to make room for more.   In the ideal situation your course would have a large acreage of "out of the way" areas that the water could be applied to when the playing areas don't need it.  It that is not possible then the playing areas get watered even if they don't need it.  I would suspect the condition of the fairways has changed dramatically over the same period.   The other thing to consider is the recycled water is most likely bringing an organic component with it, ie free fertilizer.   So not only are you seeing a wetter course but thatch is becoming a bigger issure due to excess nutrient loading.  Getting a free sourse of water can be wonderful but it is rarely without a price.

Sean

I assume that if this were the deal, it would be far better to overwater the fairways and roughs than to overwater the greens and surrounds,partly because of the importance of properly irrigated greens and surrounds to golf but also because of the relative acreage involved.  There are a lot of acres in fairways and roughs!

James B

[Don_Mahaffey]

 It is often typical in Texas that the G2 uses less water than the surrounding Bermuda.

Jeff,
Did you just write that a bentgrass will need less water then bermuda?

[Anthony_Nysse]

 It is often typical in Texas that the G2 uses less water than the surrounding Bermuda.

Jeff,
Did you just write that a bentgrass will need less water then bermuda?

WHOA! I missed that one during the first read....can't say I agree with that one...

[Dieter Jones]

Sean - I am not 100% sure on how much water the club has to take but I assume we don't get the ultimate say (hence there may well be excess that needs to go somewhere on the property). As James B said I would have thought pumping it onto the practice fairways (we have over 2000m2 of them that currently only have the tees watered) or the fiarways and roughs would be better.

Jeff - the comment re the purplish colour is interesting given that "the club" seem to believe that the greener the course is - the better it is (hence the situation we now have). That should see them flooding the new greens too to remove the purple haze.

JeffWarne - I can only assume that the Super is doing as instructed given that he still has a job at the club. I admit to being generous in my assumptions though (the mowing lines are another sore point with me - rough between the fariway and "fairway bunkers" at the exact width of Mr Toro's mowing decks - not dictated by strategy).

JAmes - An interesting thing to come out of the most recent Superintendants reports is that apparently the golf course is being mowed as:

Fairways = 12.8 Hectares
Rough = 36.7 Hectares

That's 3 to 1 ratio on a course that every hole is played between a coridor of trees that averages about 45 metres in width.
That is a hell of a lot of rough on either side of the fairways - both of which are cut at the same frequency (twice a week).

I showed Mile Clayton around a few weeks back and he thought the amount of grass not mowed to fairway height was "interesting".

[James Bennett]

Dieter

how many acres in greens and surrounds?

Tees I could care less about. Flood them if you must.

James B

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