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Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2002, 06:53:28 PM »
Geoffrey,

There is no question that the first tee shot at Secession is memorable.  I managed to hit the first fairway on my one visit, but wouldn't like my odds if a hadn't arrived early and hit about fifty balls first.  That takes away some of that fear you mentioned.

Maybe you should start a thread on Secession.  I don't recall us discussing it very much
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tim Weiman

Mike_Cirba

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2002, 07:02:19 PM »
Tim,

I'm not sure, but I doubt it.  It didn't leave a strong impression on me as it did on you.  

Isn't the driving range between the clubhouse and first tee, or haven't I been there in much too long?  ;)

I do need to get back soon.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2002, 07:03:55 PM »
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Garden City yet.  The tee just sort of blends out of the pro shop, just behind the wonderful 18th green, and looking out at the options ahead on the wonderful hole is enough to get anyone's juices flowing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Geoffrey_Walsh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2002, 07:05:37 PM »
Tim,

I started the other thread on Secession.  I am surprised it is not better known in the Northeast.  Very few people noth of Virginia have ever heard of it...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2002, 07:24:18 PM »
Evan,
C'mon it is just 295 yard power cut..... ;) ;)

Ben
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2002, 08:10:25 PM »
Not if you are a mollydooker like myself!!! ;) :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2002, 08:18:46 PM »
Cypress Point. The only tee I stood on where everything started to go white as I was about 2 breaths from passing out from sheer giddiness and fear of topping the ball as I began my golf dream come true. Fortunately it was right down the middle and I think I walked right over the hedge in front since my feet weren't touching the ground.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2002, 10:29:16 PM »
Any tee that abuts a clubhouse with  ::) watching  like several mentioned esp TOC, Merion. Also for me:

Ballybunion Old
Lahinch
The aforementioned Elie
Muirfield (only because the starter had a cow 'cause we were going off as a four ball instead of a two ball)
Castle Pines GC (the ultimate launching pad...)
City Park GC Denver, where you have to win a duel to earn the tee  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Twitter: @Deneuchre

Doug Wright

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2002, 10:45:27 PM »
I forgot--the first tee at Pebble Beach Golf Links is pretty special too...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Twitter: @Deneuchre

TEPaul

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2002, 03:28:57 AM »
The ultimate in first tees if you don't like people watching:

Merion
TOC
Riviera
Huntingdon Valley
Atlantic City
Manufacturers
Garden City
Misquamicutt
Maidstone
Philly Cricket
Shinnecock
Whitemarsh Valley,

It does appear as if William Flynn and maybe Geo. Thomas liked to put you on stage!

The clubhouse most hit:
NGLA
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2002, 03:37:11 AM »
I guess I should have said the ultimate in first tees if you do like people watching!

Add Piping Rock, Plainfield, Somerset Hills and the Pittsburgh Field Club.

What I'd like to know is which architect managed the most holes and tees emanating off a clubhouse--I think Ross got five on one routing!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Perrella

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2002, 04:24:06 AM »


    Walsh,

 I must disagree with you re Secession. In my area of upstate NY it is known by everyone. We, in fact, have a few members of our club that are members there also. I will certainly agree with you that the first tee shot is a scary one. I would hate to jump out of the car and go right over and hit that shot.
                      Paul
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Peter Galea

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2002, 05:48:14 AM »

Quote
What I'd like to know is which architect managed the most holes and tees emanating off a clubhouse--I think Ross got five on one routing!

Ross's Peninsula Country Club (Beresford) in San Mateo, Ca. does just that. I always wondered about that. It seems you are always standing next to or playing toward the clubhouse. Very unique feature.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"chief sherpa"

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2002, 06:10:45 AM »
I haven't noticed any mention of ANGC's first tee as a butt puckerer.

It's the ultimate - even a long time ago before golf got REALLY popular.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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golfarc

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2002, 06:53:17 AM »

The first tee at Seminole is certainly one of the best in the world.  You must have seen it to know.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2002, 07:09:32 AM »
Golfarc:

Interesting that you should mention Seminole's #1 tee!

I was looking carefully at Ross's original routing and individual hole drawing plans for Seminole and the 1st and 10th tees were melded together in one large arc!!

It looked extremely cool to me but one that I certainly don't remember going back to the 1960s. As long as I've known Seminole those two tees have always been well separated and rectangular and separated by the area around the pro  shop and also by the drink stand in the middle.

So I'm wondering if that extremely cool melded arc combination of #1 and #10 tees was just a design plan or whether it was ever actually built! I never saw anything like it anywhere else.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2002, 10:48:44 AM »
Tom,
That is an interesting idea, that would have been one of a kind.

Golfarc,
Do you really think that the first tee is special?  I would put it on a list of underwhleming first tees.  What do you think is special about it, in particular?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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wsmorrison

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2002, 08:33:32 AM »
Like others, I certainly think that a list would include

Merion--lunchtime especially intimidating
Pine Valley--1st shot fade around and past the bunker a tough start
Royal Aberdeen--practice green and pro shop proximity, blind landing
Shinnecock Hills--as previously stated

How about
Crail--has anyone mentioned this fun downhill shot to reach the green with the building to the right of the green?
Muirfield--especially on a foggy morning with a narrow fairway and high rough late in the summer
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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wsmorrison

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2002, 08:50:34 AM »
TE Paul:
'Lot of Flynn on your list--good to see.  It would seem he liked to start out with a relatively benign hole, but with outstanding vistas (he thought the clubhouse should command such a view, and thereby usually the 1st and 10th tees) and an initiation of what is to come.  BTW, called you as you requested and left a message with the lady of the house.  Call me when you can 610.664.9663 about the Flynn book, or I'll try again.
WSM
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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TEPaul

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2002, 10:00:51 AM »
wsmorrison:

You just made me think of something quite interesting about Flynn. He obviously like to build first tees that were cozied up to the goings on around the clubhouses as he seems to have done so many of them in a rather small career inventory of courses.

Writing a book about him as you are I'm sure you've noticed by now that Flynn personally was a bit of a maniac, a daredevil and a guy who could drink and carry on with the rich and famous and have a helluva time. He obviously must have liked to put the golfer on the spot on the first tee, don't you think? He probably wasn't too crazy about shrinking violets!

Anyway, enough of that, but as you probably know the original first tee of Merion East was way over about where the driveway is now. I wonder then who designed the present first tee, Wilson or Flynn? If it was Wilson that probably explains where Flynn got his ideas for extremely cozy first tees since it's almost impossible to get any cozier than Merion's.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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wsmorrison

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2002, 11:27:24 AM »
TE Paul:
Although  it is difficult to determine with complete accuracy, it is most likely a Flynn change that makes the 1st hole such a great opener.  The Hagley Museum has aeirals of many golf courses, 19 having to do with Flynn.  It shows clearly the change of routing (it once crossed Ardmore Ave. 4 times!) that Flynn and Wilson did in 1925 ( I think).  Wilson ceded a great deal of responsibility to Flynn and I believe much of the subsequent routing, although collaborative, to be so Flynn-like.  One of his greatest skills was to rout a course in a natural way using the land as is where it was suitable for golf and moving earth only where he had to (Indian Creek).  They were certainly being tested by the confines of the Merion property.  In any case, Flynn was most influenced by Wilson and then by the other Philadelphia architects Thomas, Tillinghast, and Crump.  He carried the mantle well influencing Gordon, Wilson, etc.

Your interest in Flynn is quite thorough.  He would fly in any contraption and his circle of friends included Rockefeller, Geist, the golf greats of his era, and many others.  I hope we can talk shortly on this common subject.  Where are you located?  Again, my number is 610.664.9663
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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wsmorrison

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2002, 11:35:36 AM »
Flynn definitely liked to be upfront with challenges.  The "white faces" of bunkers and overt hazards were sure to play on the players' minds.  He wanted the risks to be evident and was an architect with psychology as an integral role in the design process.  And, as you said, he wasted no time in confronting the player starting at the first hole.




« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2002, 12:03:33 PM »
TEPaul and wsmorrison

The current 1st at Merion was built in 1929 and Hugh Wilson died in '25 or '26.  Thus, it seems logical that the 1st hole is a Flynn although nothing says Wilson and he hadn't collaberated on the concept some years before.

FYI, the other changes that took Ardmore Ave out of play were made in 1923 and '24 - in time for Jones' first U.S. Amateur victory.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2002, 12:15:59 PM »
WayneM:

Don't forget about Juan Trippe now; he went to bat for Flynn and got him probably the biggest contract of his career--Shinnecock! There are some on here who think that Dick Wilson actually designed and built Shinnecock. That would be a helluva way to treat the biggest contract of your career, don't you think?

According to GeoffShac's "Golden Age of Golf Design" it looks like the changes were well under way to Merion before Wilson died, though. If you look at the 1924 aerial you can see that the new #10 green was built and in play although the old one was still there. So obviously #11 tee is where it is now and #11 had been changed.

But you can see that the original #1 was still in play and the old circular drive was where #1 tee is now. GeoffShac's book also implies that all the design changes were done by Wilson and he didn't die until 1925, a year later.

You know if you're really referring to any of the Dallin aerials from the Hagley you should ask Barbara Hunt down there to show you which is and which isn't Dallin's handwriting on the back of those aerials. The Hagley claims if the writing is in fact Dallin's it guarantees the accuracy of the dates and such but if it isn't his writing the accuracy of some aerials could be off--so you might be sure about that with any aerial research you're doing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Favourite First Tees
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2002, 05:52:10 PM »
Golfarc,

Other than the anticipation of playing 18 wonderful holes, preferably in a brisk wind, I don't think the first tee at Seminole is anything special.  What am I missing ?

Chipoat and TEPaul,

You've done it again.  How could you forget # 1 at NGLA ?
Perhaps I should play a practice round with the RAT or TC, god forbid.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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