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Carl Nichols

Carrying clubs onto flights
« on: February 05, 2011, 03:40:17 PM »
I have a business trip coming up and might have time for a quick round, but it may not be worth the hassle to take all of my clubs. Anyone know whether I can carry on a couple of clubs -- like a driver, SW and/or putter?

Brian Stewart

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 03:42:01 PM »
No golf clubs allowed as carry on baggage.  Here's the TSA list.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1038.shtm

Carl Nichols

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 05:02:53 PM »
Thanks Brian

Bob_Huntley

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 09:24:48 PM »
Send them ahead by FED EX. I do it every time I travel ,which is rarely, if at all these days.

Bob

David_Tepper

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 11:34:45 PM »
Carl -

You can also pack 5 or 6 clubs in a box, along with a Sunday carry bag, and check that as a piece of luggage.

DT

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 12:24:19 PM »
Prior to 9-11, the FAA allowed each passenger to bring two loose golf clubs on board.
You could also bring a boxed and taped set on board.

What I don't understand is how metal tennis rackets and other sporting implements that could be turned into weapons are allowed on board.

When the statute of limitations runs out I have two funny stories about taking golf clubs on board.
One I can tell now.

I was on a flight where a married couple had a set of "super" knives or "super steak knives" still contained in their original sales kit from the supermarket or hardware store.
When they were told that those knives weren't allowed, they tried every excuse to get them on board.
Like, "we're not going to use them for steak, they're for tomatos."  I mean, a team of comedy writers couldn't make up the lines they were tossing about.  Then somebody I knew tried to take some loose clubs on board.  They were stopped and told, "no go"
The guy with the clubs, a benign looking fellow, offered every reason/excuse, but the agent was unconvinced.  Finally the passenger said, "what's the reason why I can't bring these on board, they've got protective head covers on them ?"  The agent said words to the effect, "well you could take those covers off and swing those clubs and hit people on the head"  To which I said to the agent, "Obviously, you've never seen him play golf."  The agent said, "What do you mean ?"  I said, "He stinks, he can't hit anything he aims at."  The agent laughed, the passenger didn't.  And the clubs were gate checked.

The other story may have to wait a few years.
The agent said

Doug Siebert

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 03:37:03 PM »
Patrick,

You expect the TSA rules to make sense.  They are not supposed to!  It is all security theatre to make the sheep feel safer flying.  There's really no harm in allowing knives, golf clubs, or pretty much anything that won't help someone break through the cockpit doors on flights.  Sure, you could use such things to kill other passengers, but there are plenty of things that they'll never ban that could be used for this purpose.  If you have an electric can opener with a knife sharpener on it, when you get a new credit card, try sharpening the old one with it.  You can get them so sharp that with a little filing to clean them up they'll slice through a sheet of paper like butter.  Just as "deadly" as the box cutters the 9/11 hijackers used, and anyone can carry a dozen onto the plane in their wallet...

Considering how the government always defends against the last threat - i.e., removing shoes thanks to the shoe bombers, having the new scanners and enhanced pat downs thanks to the underwear bomber, I hate to think what they'll be doing to us when the next move is to smuggle explosives up a terrorist's rear end.  After that they'll just have them sewn in their insides.  This might be more effective anyway since you'd get bone fragments to hurt those nearby, but the gross out factor of having his insides splattered across a dozen rows would be great for scaring people, even if the plane was undamaged and it turned out no one died.  To be honest, I rather suspect at this point the terrorists don't care if they actually succeed in blowing up a plane, just doing stuff like this and making Americans more scared, more pissed off and less free serves their goals just as well as any successful attack possibly could.  After all, if they just wanted to kill people they'd wear a vest filled with a few pounds of explosives and a bunch of ball bearings under a jacket and set it off in the place where people are packed closest together, the security line!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

JMEvensky

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 03:42:46 PM »

Send them ahead by FED EX. I do it every time I travel ,which is rarely, if at all these days.

Bob

Another vote for the home team.No muss,no fuss.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 04:07:23 PM »
Doug,

I think, if you fly 1st class on certain airlines, that they give you metal knives, forks and spoons with your meal.

Year's ago, pre 9-11, I attemtped to board a flight carrying 4 putters.
Security would not let me through, claiming the regulations prohibited bringing those clubs on board.

As I was detained, other passengers, with lacrosse sticks, golf clubs, tennis rackets, etc.,etc. were allowed through, so I was taken back by what I perceived as selective enforcement.  And, I had carried, and seen other passengers carry golf clubs on almost every flight.   I was dressed in a jacket and tie, with my wife and made this flight on a regular basis.

After being told that I would be denied boarding priveleges,
I insisted on seeing the regulations which prohibited carrying clubs on board, while at the same time watching passenger after passenger carrying the same clubs, passing through security to board the aircraft.  They didn't want to show me the regulations, but, I insisted on seeing them.  Eventually, after indicating that I was going to board if they didn't show me the regulations, they showed the regulations.
The regulations were quite clear and indicated that passengers were limited to two (2) clubs, loosely, per passenger.
I then said to the fellow who detained me, I have four (4) clubs and we're two (2) passengers, now tell me again why you want to prohibit my boarding the plane.

I then boarded the plane. 

But, a month later, when trying to take clubs, double boxed and highly taped on board, another majore problem occured.

Today, I don't mind the FAA/TSA banning any and every item.

With the onset of 9-11 the environment is drastically different and the inventiveness of Al Quida, limitless.

If prisoners can fashion knives out of plastic toothbrushes, I'd imagine the AQ could figure out how to craft lethal weapons, so, I'm OK with banning almost anything, including passengers who may be suspicious or giving off dangerous vibes.

Wade Whitehead

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 05:30:18 PM »
I flew in January and observed, for the first time, as TSA agents unzipped my travel cover and removed every club from my bag.  They weren't careful with them (knocking several of my irons against a nearby brick wall) and jammed the clubs back into the bag (all in two of the four divider sections on the top).  A new putter headcover was replaced carelessly; my putter was scratched as a result and my headcover was smashed by the time I unpacked my bags on arrival.

My return flight yielded similar treatment.

I think this is a new policy, as I can't recall my clubs actually being individually removed from checked baggage before.

Such are the pains of traveling, I suppose.

WW

Doug Siebert

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2011, 01:05:45 AM »
Last time I took my clubs on a flight the head was broken off my driver.  I'm not sure if it was my hurried packing (usually I wrap clothing around the heads) or the TSA's inspectors, but it pretty much made me decide I'm never bringing my clubs again for a single round.  If I'm not planning on playing a minimum of 3-4 times, its not worth bringing my clubs.  Its a hassle travelling with them anyway, but the drooling morons working for the TSA have sealed the deal.

Patrick's willing acceptance of "banning almost anything" demonstrates what's wrong with the public here.  People fear terrorism on planes so much that they are willing to subject to any arbitrary rule or over the top enforcement if it makes them feel falsely safer.  Never mind that you are vastly more likely to die on the drive to/from the airport than you are on the plane (even including crashes that don't involve terrorism)

We have a concept of acceptable losses when driving on the highway - if we wanted to prevent all road deaths, bringing the speed limit back to what it was in NYC 100 years ago, 12 mph, would accomplish that, but no one would seriously suggest such a thing even when it would save tens of thousands of lives.  Holding cars to much higher crash standards would eliminate many, though not all, of those deaths while maintaining the same speed limits we have now, but most would consider a doubling of the sticker price too high a price to pay for these lives.  But for some reason, no price in terms of convenience, dignity, or US budget deficit appears to be too high when it comes to allowing people to fly under the serene delusion that they are protected from the terrorists.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Mark Chaplin

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2011, 02:23:35 AM »
Doug - I always use an extendable pole (the type you click a paint roller on to do ceilliings) set it 1/2" longer than the driver and have never had an issue.
Cave Nil Vino

C. Squier

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 08:47:09 AM »
All I know is that I want my plane to land with grace.  If that means "we" have to check our golf clubs, take off our shoes or god forbid walk through a full body scanner (which 99.9999% of the US population is immediately forgetable when seen on x-ray) I'm all for it.

Take off the tin foil hats and think about what is really important.  If waiting 2 extra mins in security for the moron who can't figure out he's not allowed to bring shampoo in his carry on saves me the 1/1,000,000,000 chance that he's going to use it maliciously.....well darnit, I'll just wake up 2 mins early to not have to take that chance.


Martin Toal

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2011, 09:19:22 AM »
There appears to be a cultural difference in security, with the US traveller not feeling secure unless security is very visible and ritualised with instructions shouted at them every 30 seconds by someone who is clearly as pissed off standing there as, well, you are.


JMEvensky

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 09:44:33 AM »


Year's ago, pre 9-11, I attemtped to board a flight

Security would not let me through

 




Sounds like intelligent profiling.

C. Squier

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2011, 11:13:59 AM »
There appears to be a cultural difference in security, with the US traveller not feeling secure unless security is very visible and ritualised with instructions shouted at them every 30 seconds by someone who is clearly as pissed off standing there as, well, you are.



Not the case Martin.  I just roll my eyes when someone complains about the overt showing of security like it's some gov't conspiracy to cause them to miss their flight or that they get off on scanning our obese citizenship.  

And I'll take personal offense to Doug's "acceptable loss" argument after watching a dear friend come to grips with him knowing he was days removed from his office in one of the top floors of the first tower and watching his friend die on tv.  I promise, he doesn't mind the body scan.  Or my parents who were in Heathrow a few years ago on the day of the bomb scare that ushered in the clear bags - no liquids policy.  They had no problems throwing away their lotions and shampoo.  

If there's a better, more efficient way of making us safe to fly....I'm all for it.  But please don't lead in with the "I'm to busy/late/important to take my shoes off or check my golf clubs" argument.  It's amazing how short of memories we have.  

Richard Choi

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2011, 11:30:12 AM »
Clint, the US airport security has stopped exactly 0 terrorist/hijacking/bombing attempt in its history. They are always chasing the previous incident and never out in front. I would say their record is pretty abysimal for all the kabuki theater that we have to go through.

The cockpit door is secured and pilots will no longer reroute if hijacking is occuring. THAT will make sure that 9/11 type attacks will never happen again. Everything else that TSA is doing is nothing but a security theater since it stops nothing.

C. Squier

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2011, 11:54:17 AM »
Clint, the US airport security has stopped exactly 0 terrorist/hijacking/bombing attempt in its history. They are always chasing the previous incident and never out in front. I would say their record is pretty abysimal for all the kabuki theater that we have to go through.

The cockpit door is secured and pilots will no longer reroute if hijacking is occuring. THAT will make sure that 9/11 type attacks will never happen again. Everything else that TSA is doing is nothing but a security theater since it stops nothing.

And how exactly do you know a potential threat hasn't been stopped?  How do you know that someone hasn't given hijacking a plane a second thought because of the preventative measures taken? 

You don't.  I would say their post-9/11 record has been perfect.  Both administrations.

Richard Choi

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2011, 12:17:03 PM »
How do you know that sun is going to rise tomorrow? That Fazio is going to build a firm and fast golf course?

You don't.

But look at the best airport security in the world - Israel. They have been very very successful at what they are doing even though they are the #1 target for terrorists. They have had several successful aborting of hijacking/bombing attempts. The flights originating from Israel are quite safe. And they don't go through all the security theater that we do.

And if you believe post-9/11 record has been perfect, you are deluding yourself. There have been several successful bombing attempts (most of them originating from international airports, but I don't think terrorists care and also points out how futile all this is). All of them were foiled not because of added security, but because the terrorist are incompetent (seriously, if they were that smart to begin with, they wouldn't be terrorists). But if they try often enough, they will succeed. It is inevitable. If I wanted to blow up an airplane, I think I can find a way, there is nothing in the current security that would stop me.

Don't confuse being lucky to being competent.

Bob_Huntley

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2011, 12:41:11 PM »
I have to agree with Richard, it is mostly theatre.

I do feel that Israel does it right but Richard forgot to mention that they have but two airports.

The shoes, the liquids, the disgusting pornographic pat downs are all the result of an afterthought. What happens when a female terrorist puts some Semtex in her tampon or pessary and inserts it up her fundamental orifices ? Will the goons be given carte blanch to stick it to you?

If there is anyone that doubts the inefficiencies of the TSA, you should read the article below.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/11/the-things-he-carried/7057/



Bob
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 12:43:26 PM by Bob_Huntley »

Ben Sims

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2011, 01:14:15 PM »
Good gracious.  The only "theatre" happening here is the delusional thinking and extremist remarks of my friend Rich and Mr. Siebert.  

Guys, really?  Let me throw some quotes out there and let you reread them and see if you stand by them.

First, from Doug.  "But for some reason, no price in terms of convenience, dignity, or US budget deficit appears to be too high when it comes to allowing people to fly under the serene delusion that they are protected from the terrorists."

I would say you're right Doug.  No price is too high.  But make no mistake, it is no serene delusion.  If you can name a way that you can make it into the cockpit of an airliner and/or effectively use it as a weapon against the US, please tell me.  You can bet your life on the fact that our enemies have probed--and continue to probe--every single weakness in our security measures.  Unless I missed something, there have been exactly ZERO losses of life attributable to terrorist action aboard airlines in the United States since Sept. 11 2001.  So if I/we are delusional about our security, please explain how.  Whatever you may think of your own personal intellect, I can assure you that "the terrorists" are far better at planning out how to kill people than you are.  So dismissing one of any number of non-government actors that have beef with our way of life as not succeeding because they aren't trying, is ridiculous.
  

Now, a great quote from Rich.   "All of them were foiled not because of added security, but because the terrorist are incompetent (seriously, if they were that smart to begin with, they wouldn't be terrorists)."

I really get a kick out of civilians underestimating our enemies.  It's so...delusional.  I mean, look at the guys that were at the forefront of the 9/11 attacks.  Dumbasses, all of them.  Couldn't speak multiple languages.  Definitely didn't know how to fly airplanes.  No education.  Just wackos that--if they were smarter--would've found their way into finance or defense contracting or something.  No, Rich, you're wrong.  The enemies of our nation are motivated, intelligent, and they plan to a level of detail that our intelligence services are only now starting to really understand.  They communicate infrequently and at intervals that make the interception of HUMINT very difficult.  They rely almost exclusively on a network of trusted agents that are vetted through years of fighting multiple enemies in multiple hemispheres.  Sorry my friend, but the stereotype of the goat herder with a Kalashnikov and Quran is inaccurate.  Like I said to Doug, these guys haven't succeeded because of the things we have done as a nation, and that includes the dreaded TSA.  

Don't confuse attempted or foiled attacks with ineffective security.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 01:15:58 PM by Ben Sims »

Jerry Kluger

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2011, 01:43:46 PM »
The TSA screeners are going to be given the okay to unionize - how does that make you feel about security!

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2011, 01:51:39 PM »
Doug,

I use four (4) one (1) inch dowels, forty-eight (48) inches in length.

You can buy them at Home Depot or any lumber yard.

Put one each in the dividers in your golf bag, or two in the top divider where you keep your driver and fairway woods/metals.

This will usually protect the clubs from having the heads snap off or the shafts bent/snapped.

It's a cheap and efficient method of protecting your clubs.

Richard Choi,

You can't compare a small country, with only two International Airports, with the large, expansive U.S. Airport system, International and domestic.

While I agree that profiling is a legitimate screening method, on the surface, we've announced that we won't engage in that viable and valueable practice.

The fact that no successful hijacking/terrorist act, originating in the U.S., has occured, is proof that the system is working...... so far.

I'm with Ben, you're underestimating a very intelligent, clever enemy.

In addition, your thinking is one dimensional.

We know that this enemy is all too willing to sacrifice themselves in an attempt to kill American's.

Imagine the impact, physical and psychological, if 20 planes, flying Domestic routes, exploded in a co-ordinated attack, when they're over a city or upon takeoff or landing.

If  you don't think hundreds or thousands of them are thinking of ways to cause death and destruction in the U.S., you're out of touch.

My concern is our borders, mostly the southern border.
How long will it be before a suitcase nuke is simply walked across an unimpeded border and placed in one of our major cities.
What would the cost, in human life, property damage and our way of life be ?
Far more than building another great wall of China ? ?
If the Chinese could build an impenetrable barrier over hostile terrain thousands of years ago, we should be able to do it in short order.

End of rant(;;)

They've attempted to place bombs on board, as part of a cargo shipment.
They've attempted to place bombers on board as passengers.
And, they've succeeded with those efforts.

Don't ever underestimate this enemy.

If they want to turn me upside down and strip search me, I don't have a problem with that.

I want my family and myself to get from point A to point B..... SAFELY.

Bob Huntley,

It's not a perfect system, but, look at the scale of the operation, it's enormous.

As to your Tampex example, profiling, along with chemical (air puffer) AND full body screening might prevent a vaginal or anal borne explosive device.

In fact, I think they're already doing this at some airports.

When I was going to Sand Hills and in the Denver Airport with TEPaul, and he lost his connecting ticket, and was wandering aimlessly around the airport, I thought I heard some TSA official say, "check out that A--hole"  Maybe it was a pilot program.(;;)


Tiger_Bernhardt

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2011, 02:56:39 PM »
Fed ex is the way to go. There is minimal risk and it works like a charm. If you have  time fed ex ground is like 35 bucks coast to coast.

Carl Nichols

Re: Carrying clubs onto flights
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2011, 03:12:02 PM »
Fed ex is the way to go. There is minimal risk and it works like a charm. If you have  time fed ex ground is like 35 bucks coast to coast.

Agreed that fedex would be great, but I don't have time for ground shipping -- leave tomorrow and am playing Weds.  Will probably check bag and send back via ground.

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