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Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #175 on: February 13, 2011, 12:13:23 PM »
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #176 on: February 13, 2011, 02:14:35 PM »

Don't buy gas from companies that import most of their oil from the middle east...

http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/summary.html



Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #177 on: February 13, 2011, 02:48:39 PM »
So the climate change deniers don't think a 150 years of spewing the by product of fossil fuel burning is causing our atmosphere to change? When  the rivers ran orange from the crap we dumped into them you could point at it say, "ya see!". So why is it so difficult to look at shrinking glaciers and data from thousands of sources and say "ya see!".
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #178 on: February 13, 2011, 04:03:38 PM »
Craig,

No one really disputes that climate change is occuring..just whether man has any discernable affect on it.

There are many serious, non-poliitcized scientists who convincingly argue against AGW.

There are also many serious scientists who completely refute the impact of CO2 regarding climate change.

There's ample evidence of global cooling since 1998. This might have a far greater negative impact on our mutual love of golf than GW could ever have.

Climategate exposed the IPCC and most of the AGW science for what it really is- You-Tube propaganda videos and Wikipedia bias notwithstanding.

The science is far from settled.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #179 on: February 13, 2011, 04:05:02 PM »
Chris:

If you don't mind my asking, what do you do for a living?

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #180 on: February 13, 2011, 04:16:40 PM »
No Tom, I don't mind you asking...I do consulting work for the Navy, mostly logistics.

No connection to big oil.

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #181 on: February 13, 2011, 04:36:55 PM »
No Tom, I don't mind you asking...I do consulting work for the Navy, mostly logistics.

No connection to big oil.

The US Navy has no connection to Big Oil? 
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #182 on: February 13, 2011, 04:50:51 PM »
Chris...having some cooler years is not an indication of global cooling....it simply means we had some cooler weather. Climate change takes years...and looking at the long range data, we are warming.

I would love to see the names of scientist not connected to oil/gas/coal that dispute CO2 is not having an impact on our climate...

The deniers jumped all over the email scandal when it first came out, but over the next year, it turns out they were basically wrong and the data was 99% solid and legit.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #183 on: February 13, 2011, 05:01:00 PM »
Chris..maybe you forgot that the whole Climategate issue was looked into and the final reports supported the data and the scientist.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/greenspace/2010/07/climate-change-scientists-in-email-scandal-cleared-again.html
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #184 on: February 13, 2011, 05:08:12 PM »

Craig S,

   Why don't you have faith in science to save us from ourselves?

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #185 on: February 13, 2011, 05:08:23 PM »
Chris:

If you don't mind my asking, what do you do for a living?

Tom, I already persued this line of questioning with others who think anthropogenic climate change is not real. I love how all these non-beleivers have no science background. Watch out Tom, soon they might start saying they know more about building golf courses than you. ;)
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #186 on: February 13, 2011, 05:13:50 PM »
Craig- We'll just have to agree to disagree.

David- Whoops, forgot the USN was a subsidiary of Exxon-Mobil.

Matt- Right..only accredited scientists are allowed to have valid opinions on AGW. How many papers have you published on the subject?

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #187 on: February 13, 2011, 08:02:16 PM »
There are many serious, non-poliitcized scientists who convincingly argue against AGW.

There are also many serious scientists who completely refute the impact of CO2 regarding climate change.

There's ample evidence of global cooling since 1998. This might have a far greater negative impact on our mutual love of golf than GW could ever have.

Climategate exposed the IPCC and most of the AGW science for what it really is- You-Tube propaganda videos and Wikipedia bias notwithstanding.

The science is far from settled.

Boy, I am probably going to regret this but...

Chris, would you mind posting some of these "ample evidence" for global cooling and "serious scientists" who dispute the role of CO2 in global warming?

I have yet to see any serious peer reviewed scientific paper that has come up with a better theory for global warming. Perhaps, I am just not looking in the right places. I would love to see what you are reading.

At least from the papers that I have seen, there is clear consensus among scientists that there is global warming (I mean, seriously, there is no climatologist of any standing who disputes this). There are questions about the exact cause, but the studies done on the climate over last 500,000 years or so have shown that the increase that we have seen over the last century is quite unique in the rate of change - that is also not in dispute.

The reason why CO2 is the likely culprit is many fold. First, it is the main change in atmosphere over the same time global warming has occurred. While correlation is not necessarily causational, the fact that heat is trapped more effeciently in CO2 makes it very likely cause. This has been backed by numerous climate simulations and temperature patterns of the last global warming where there were higher concentrations of greenhouse gases like CO2. Pretty much everywhere we have looked at, all the evidence points to increase in CO2.

While it is true that other scientist may question some of the logic or evidence related to CO2 and global warming, none have yet to come up with better explanations based on the physical evidences that we have. And if you cannot provide an alternative theory that can be tested or backed up by physical evidence, not matter how much you scream, it is not going to be accepted by the scientific community.

That is how science works. It doesn't matter what you think or what you believe. The physical evidence tells you what the truth is. If someone disagrees with global warming or its cause, all they have to do is to come up with testable theory to disprove it. But no one has yet has come up with a viable alternative so far so the current method of thinking around global warming will continue, climategate or not.

In the end, as I have said before, if you don't "believe" global warming, it makes absolutely no difference. All of the measurements say the temperatures are going up. You can deny it all you want, but it makes absolutely no difference and frankly, no scientist really cares.They are busy doing actual work, they couldn't care less if some significant number of ignorant population don't believe the facts, because facts don't change just because people don't want to believe them.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 08:11:05 PM by Richard Choi »

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #188 on: February 13, 2011, 08:33:50 PM »
Chirping again is John...

I always try to find the simple explanation that easily dismisses the contrarian views on these sorts of things.

I thought the poll that asked climate scientists whether they thought anthropogenic global warming was significant.  If you understand statistics, once you get to a 97% responses of "yes" among 2000 trials, you can make high confidence conclusions.

Here's another thought:  If any one scientist, just one, produced a truly compelling scientific study which defied the conventional wisdom and showed that humans were NOT making an impact, that scientist would be the most popular guest on big business television shows.  "We'd like to welcome back Professor XXXXXX, who has compelling evidence that shows...".  Where's that guy?

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #189 on: February 13, 2011, 08:44:27 PM »
Richard (and Craig)

Here is a letter to the UN Secretary General signed by 100 lprominent world scientists

http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/un-signatories.html


And here is a petition currently signed by over 31,000 American scientists, including over 9000 PhDs. Wonder if they are all "ignorant"? I can only presume that a lot of them are in fact busy doing actual work.

http://www.petitionproject.org/index.php

Included in the above link is some good, peer reviewed data.


Some of this might qualify for that alternate theory that you're looking for and I'm pretty sure it's not just me that's "screaming".

John- you might want to take a peek at the above as well.

No offense taken.


Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #191 on: February 13, 2011, 10:14:25 PM »
Chris...I selected one name from the list of people that signed the letter to the Sec. General of the UN....Richard Courtney...I selected his name at random. i googled him....care to know who he works for?  The coal industry...

When this letter first came out it was noted that even though it claimed to be signed by 100 "scientist" many of the signitore were not scientist. So, several names were dropped from the list in future letters.

Like I said, it is very difficult to find a scientist that is not being funded, or his organization funded, by the fossil fuel industry that does not believe man has a lot to do with global warming.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #192 on: February 13, 2011, 10:16:56 PM »
Craig E...I love science...and I think it will be the scientist that save our bacon...certainly not god.
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #193 on: February 13, 2011, 10:29:12 PM »
Richard (and Craig)

Here is a letter to the UN Secretary General signed by 100 lprominent world scientists

http://www.middlebury.net/op-ed/un-signatories.html


And here is a petition currently signed by over 31,000 American scientists, including over 9000 PhDs. Wonder if they are all "ignorant"? I can only presume that a lot of them are in fact busy doing actual work.

http://www.petitionproject.org/index.php

Included in the above link is some good, peer reviewed data.


Some of this might qualify for that alternate theory that you're looking for and I'm pretty sure it's not just me that's "screaming".

John- you might want to take a peek at the above as well.

No offense taken.

Do you want me to research these professors one at a time and show you their bias one-by-one?
The first professor I googled in your list of "prominent" scientists was Timothy F. Ball. He is a consultant for the "Friends of Science" organization", and a Toronto Star article from January 2007 showed that one-third of their funding was from the oil industry. Wow, big surprise there. You are making this way too easy on me. I don't even think I am going to have to try.
Here is a quote from Mr. Ball:
"CFC's were never a problem.... it's only because the sun is changing."

If you like I could keep researching.

BY the way, I never published anything because i chose to enter the workforce and make a difference there instead of persuing research. During my time in university I studied under many professors doing the research, and right now I have friends doing the research. I just so happen to be currently proof-reading my friends masters thesis before she has to defend it. But you know, she is just one of those scientists fudging her data, right?
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #194 on: February 13, 2011, 10:44:09 PM »
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #195 on: February 13, 2011, 10:48:36 PM »
Matt,

Yes please...since Craig already outed one that means you only have 98 left to discredit.

Then maybe you can start on the other list of 31,000 that share similar views. They are even listed by state and scientific specialty so it'll make it easier for you.

In between can you refute the points in the letter and the review paper with specific ciitations?

Thanks.


Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #196 on: February 13, 2011, 10:57:45 PM »
Matt,

Yes please...since Craig already outed one that means you only have 98 left to discredit.

Then maybe you can start on the other list of 31,000 that share similar views. They are even listed by state and scientific specialty so it'll make it easier for you.

In between can you refute the points in the letter and the review paper with specific ciitations?

Thanks.



Just go watch the above video I posted. That will be my "refudiation" of the 31 000 "experts" from your list.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #197 on: February 13, 2011, 11:29:09 PM »
Matt,

Yes please...since Craig already outed one that means you only have 98 left to discredit.

Oh come on Chris, the depth of knowledge of that list of 100 scientists was discredited almost as soon as it was published.

How does an expert on virology or geotechnical engineering command respect in the field of climate science? 

Matt,

Nice video. 
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #198 on: February 13, 2011, 11:53:43 PM »
Chirping again is John...

I always try to find the simple explanation that easily dismisses the contrarian views on these sorts of things.

I thought the poll that asked climate scientists whether they thought anthropogenic global warming was significant.  If you understand statistics, once you get to a 97% responses of "yes" among 2000 trials, you can make high confidence conclusions.

Here's another thought:  If any one scientist, just one, produced a truly compelling scientific study which defied the conventional wisdom and showed that humans were NOT making an impact, that scientist would be the most popular guest on big business television shows.  "We'd like to welcome back Professor XXXXXX, who has compelling evidence that shows...".  Where's that guy?
http://www.drroyspencer.com/

I'm sure he's somehow unpure  and owns 3 shares of an oil company in his 401k or something.

John-
How do you create a scientific experiment to disprove something that hasn't been proven? Maybe the sceptics should also prove there is no god while they're at it.




Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Global warming ????
« Reply #199 on: February 14, 2011, 12:03:03 AM »
Buck,

I think you make a fine point.  The burden of proof is on those who make the claim that global warming has a significant manmade component.  Same as the proof required to make a case for evolution.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2011, 12:11:26 AM by John Kirk »

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