[Jason Topp]

Random thought:

Perhaps my memory is askew but it seems to me that a large number of links courses open with holes that often play in a left to right wind (often hurting).  Examples from my memory include:

Ballybunion
Lahinch
The Old Course
Carnoustie
Lundin Links
Porthcawl
Brora

I am less sure whether these fit the description but it seems to me that they do:

Dornoch (?)
New Course (?)
Western Gailes (?)
Prestwick (?)
Burnham and Berrow (?)
Elie (?)
The New Course (?)

I know this observation is not universal but is my generalization wrong? 

If it is reasonably accurate, is there any reason for the orientation of opening holes in such a direction relative to the wind?  I have seen many people get eaten up by such holes.

[David_Tepper]

Jason -

#1 at Royal Dornoch is just about the straightest hole on the course.
It plays downwind except when it plays into the wind!

DT

[Jud_T]

Is the prevailing wind at the Old Course really left to right on #1?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jud

Depends upon what is prevailing at the time.

Melvyn

[Jason Topp]

Is the prevailing wind at the Old Course really left to right on #1?

It sure has seemed that way to me from spending something like 2 weeks in the town but I definitely have not done a climatological study.

[Shane Wright]

Jud - I was just going to say the same thing.

Jason, most links courses open with a hole that is parallel to the ocean, only a couple that I can think of run perpendicular or close to perpendicular.  I would think it is pretty rare to have a downwind or directly into the wind on a links course 1st hole.  Waterville and Portmarnock have the water that horseshoes around the course but this is typically not common.  

I would say the reasons for this are more routing driven.  On a narrow strip of land, it would probably be tough and inefficient to run perpendicular to the ocean with the first hole.  

Also, the current 1st hole at Ballybunion hasn't always been the first hole.  I believe the current 6th at BB was the previous #1

[Bill_McBride]

Old, New, Jubilee and Eden at St Andrews all play parallel to the ocean in a generally northward direction.

Elie plays inland so not sure it's in a left to right wind.

The wind in St Andrews is either in your face in or out -- unless it switches while you're in the loop!

[Colin Macqueen]

Jason,
Dinna fash yersel' laddie! I think you're right about Carnoustie though!

Cheers Colin

[Mark Pearce]

Elie does have a prevailing left to right wind on the first.  Pretty much straight across, normally.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Mark,

I think you're stretching a theory here and I'm not sure those you mention all play left to right against the prevailing wind as you state (a quick look at google maps should sort that one out)...

The sun would have a bigger impact on starting holes, ideally not starting off to East-South-East (in Britain & Ireland) and finishing to West-south-West.

This in turn may have had an impact on opening holes heading west which is your "left-to-right-slightly hurting wind" taking the prevailing south-westerly...

Portmarnock heads in to the wind with a slight right to left...

[Mark Pearce]

Ally,

Not my theory!  I was just confirming the prevailing wind at Elie.  I think Jason is the one you want to address your post to!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally,

Not my theory!  I was just confirming the prevailing wind at Elie.  I think Jason is the one you want to address your post to!

Excuse me Mark.

I do believe you are correct. Over to Jason.

[JNC Lyon]

How many links courses really have a prevailing wind?  I was going to name Sandwich as an example.  Both times I played there, the wind was blowing solidly from left to right.  Yet many would say the wind on that hole blows more often from the opposite direction.  At Brora, the wind was directly behind us when we played, and there was no hint of left-to-right breeze.  How many links courses truly have a prevailing wind.  One of the glorious things about links golf is that the wind strength and direction changes on a daily basis.

[Sean_A]

The only links I am familiar with to speak about prevailing wind with authority is Burnham.  Southwest is meant to be the prevailing wind and if that means the wind comes from that direction more than any other than southwest is the prevailing wind at Burnham.  However, the wind can often come from the north or northeast and sometimes from the northwest or southeast.  In the past few years the wind direction has become less and less reliable  - to the point where the southwest direction may be less than 50%.

For you Dealies, I have yet to play the course from the sposed prevailing wind direction.  Every single time the wind as been mainly (sometimes it has quartered a bit from the sea) at the back going out and in the face coming home. 

Ciao

[JNC Lyon]

The only links I am familiar with to speak about prevailing wind with authority is Burnham.  Southwest is meant to be the prevailing wind and if that means the wind comes from that direction more than any other than southwest is the prevailing wind at Burnham.  However, the wind can often come from the north or northeast and sometimes from the northwest or southeast.  In the past few years the wind direction has become less and less reliable  - to the point where the southwest direction may be less than 50%.

For you Dealies, I have yet to play the course from the sposed prevailing wind direction.  Every single time the wind as been mainly (sometimes it has quartered a bit from the sea) at the back going out and in the face coming home. 

Ciao

Sean,

That wind at Deal you describe is supposedly the prevailing wind.  Noel Freeman's "Deal Me In!" describes the front nine as being much as easier than the back nine because of that wind.  However, I would argue that the wind you've faced is not necessarily the prevailing wind.  The wind blows in the face on the front nine just as often.  This wind, to my mind, makes the course play tougher, because it is usually a colder stiffer breeze and the longer holes coming in are still tough with the wind at the back.  Point is, I don't see either wind direction as being the "prevailing" wind at Deal.

[Niall C]

Jud

Depends upon what is prevailing at the time.

Melvyn

now that made me laugh out loud. So very true. As Sean noted, there does seem to be a greater variance in wind direction these days. A few years back when I played a most of my golf at Silloth, the prevailing wind switched between winter and summer. Now there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the wind direction.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

It's not a links course but there is a very, very clear prevailing wind at my home course.  I would say that 90% of the time during the summer the wind is from the west, occasionally the south-west.  It varies more in winter and a North wind is seen then but almost never in summer.  At Crail the prevailing wind is west as well and with, I'd say, a high degree of prevelance.  Similarly at Elie the westerly prevails.

[Jamie Barber]

For you Dealies, I have yet to play the course from the sposed prevailing wind direction.  Every single time the wind as been mainly (sometimes it has quartered a bit from the sea) at the back going out and in the face coming home. 

That *IS* the supposed prevailing wind, into on the back nine which is partly why it has the reputation it does.

I've played there 5 times, each time the wind has been into on the front 9 (against the supposed prevailing wind). I play most of my golf just down the bay at Prince's and I don't think there is a prevailing wind.

[Scott Warren]

Jamie, I agree there isn't really a prevailing wind as such on that stretch of coast.

I still often recall that lunatic wind we had that one day, bending the timber flagsticks and almost blowing us both over!

[Mark Chaplin]

I can assure you that the prevailing wind in the UK is a south westerly. Prevailing isn't the only wind we get though.

At Deal this means standing in the first tee the wind usually blows from the clubhouse at around two o'clock. Probably 75% of the time the last 7 holes play into a two o'clock wind. In the winter it is common to have a northerly or north easterly, these winds tend to bring very cold air from the Arctic and Russia, it is rare but we have had some very strong northerlies in the summer. Wind straight off the sea (Easterly) is the least common although big easterly winter gales cost the club two Open Championships, north westerlies are also rare (i.e. from five o'clock on the first tee).

Jamies/Scott the reason why Deal, Sandwich and Princes are far drier than the west coast links is the prevailing wind dumping the rain on western Britain.

Tomorrow is forecast as a 32 mph south westerly with gusts up to 50 mph.....extremely breezy, it's also our once a year fourball competition!

[Adam Lawrence]

Chappers - that's nature's way of telling you that fourballs is a game for cads and bounders!

[Tony_Muldoon]

Chappers - that's nature's way of telling you that fourballs is a game for cads and bounders!

Or real men!

[Jason Topp]

Pretty entertaining to do a Google seach of "Prevailing Wind at the Old Course"


Apparently Melvin agrees with David Kidd about something.  From the 7th at St. Andrews:

"A prevailing wind at St. Andrews is a golf oxymoron, like the metalwood."


However - this website opines such a thing exists at St. Andrews but suggests it is the opposite direction as my guess:

"The prevailing winds blow east to west and can severely impair distance."

http://www.standrewsgolf.com/golf-courses/


This website is consistent with my impression:

"Surprisingly, to me, the dominant wind at St. Andrews is from the West, ..."



I will need to look at a map for this one but does it mean North?

"The 11th hole shares its double green with No. 7. This hole typically plays into the prevailing wind off Eden Estuary."  

http://golf.about.com/od/golfcourses/ig/Old-Course-Pictures/Old-Course-at-St-Andrews-11.-Na5.htm


From an ESPN 2005 Open Preview story:

"In July, the prevailing wind comes out of the quarry next to the airfield -- from the southwest -- roughly 75 percent of the time. That means holes one through seven and the 10th and 11th generally play into it. Nos. 8 and 9 and the 12th through the 18th generally play downwind. In addition, the tides affect the severity of the wind. An incoming tide is generally on an easy breeze, it goes dead calm as it turns and picks up intensity as the tide goes out. However, this notion of "generally" is where it all comes a cropper. If the weather turns a bit freakish, well, the wind can be the exact opposite, coming out of the northeast or north, so you can flip which holes play with or into it. And that can happen quickly. Says Peter Dawson, chief executive of the Royal and Ancient, "There is a prevailing wind, but it never comes from there." In the unluckiest of scenarios, it is possible for someone to go out into the wind, have it turn the same time they do and come home into the wind. That's considered a generally bad day. "St. Andrews is St. Andrews, man," says Ernie Els. "It can be very nice and it can be a beast.""

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/britishopen05/news/story?id=2106734



For reference - here is a map that indicates the direction of the holes:

[Tony_Muldoon]

Thanks for that Jason because if the prevailing winds play up and down TOC, the 1st and 18th have them at an angle and the SW wind would blow L-Rish across the first.


IT seems to me the SW wind would play roughly R-L  across the following courses first holes (not checked n Google)

Deal (then turns around)
2 out of 3 at Princes
RSG
Rye
Saunton
Seacroft
Hunstanton
Brancaster
Turnberry (before it turns round)

A minority?  


If a course is out and back it would seem logical to me to want to have the back 9 into the wind.  This would suggest heading out roughly South on the west coasts and North on the East?


First holes into the SW wind? (again not checked)

Preswick
Littlestone
North Berwick
Muirfield

[Wyatt Halliday]

What about Machrihanish?

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