List Thread Returns: Top 11 courses I am seeking access to in 2011

[Carl Nichols]

As a member of a private club, I'm pretty surprised that anyone thinks we private club members need the PC police on here to protect us from what is obviously a tongue-in-cheek attempt at humor.  I can see how someone would think JC's post isn't funny, but I can't see how anyone would think it does any harm.  

[Charlie Goerges]

You're right Carl, it may be funny, but it ain't morse code funny.

[JC Jones]

David,

Great point.  I was thinking of including Morfontaine. 

Hmmm.   Does this make me one of the "well-connected Californians" you always compliment?   If so, you are whoring on the wrong corner.

Well, you are friends with Tommy Naccarato aren't you?

[John Kavanaugh]

As a member of a private club, I'm pretty surprised that anyone thinks we private club members need the PC police on here to protect us from what is obviously a tongue-in-cheek attempt at humor.  I can see how someone would think JC's post isn't funny, but I can't see how anyone would think it does any harm.  

Never been called a member of the PC police before.

[PCCraig]

But I thought comped golf was killing the golf industry??

Pat, this is simple.  I have seen a ton of young guys like you who would be a member of a course if they were not a rater.  You are a joiner through and through who was taken out of the mix by a magazine that depends on the success of private clubs.  They are cutting their nose off to spite their face in some pitiful need to get you to pony up for rater camp.  It is a sad cycle that is not helping the game.

Paying a fee to go on a rater "camp" or as GW calls it a "retreat", is not a significant investment, maybe $750-$1000 every other year. So now you have a problem with raters paying for a golf trip?

Who said I'm not a member of a course?

[Mac Plumart]

This might be the single weirdest thread I've ever seen on GCA...and that is saying a lot.

I am speechless, so I'll bow out. 

[John Kavanaugh]

You're right Carl, it may be funny, but it ain't morse code funny.

Charlie,

Speaking of what is funny, what's up with the new name?

[Carl Nichols]

As a member of a private club, I'm pretty surprised that anyone thinks we private club members need the PC police on here to protect us from what is obviously a tongue-in-cheek attempt at humor.  I can see how someone would think JC's post isn't funny, but I can't see how anyone would think it does any harm.  

Never been called a member of the PC police before.

I thought you'd appreciate that!

[John Kavanaugh]

But I thought comped golf was killing the golf industry??

Pat, this is simple.  I have seen a ton of young guys like you who would be a member of a course if they were not a rater.  You are a joiner through and through who was taken out of the mix by a magazine that depends on the success of private clubs.  They are cutting their nose off to spite their face in some pitiful need to get you to pony up for rater camp.  It is a sad cycle that is not helping the game.

Paying a fee to go on a rater "camp" or as GW calls it a "retreat", is not a significant investment, maybe $750-$1000 every other year. So now you have a problem with raters paying for a golf trip?

Who said I'm not a member of a course?

Pat,

You don't really think I have a problem with you guys paying to be raters do you?  I think the fees should be raised to 1800/yr. There is not a doubt in my mind that the ratings would not suffer and the rolls would remain full.

note:  I am grateful that rater camp provides revenue enabling a fine magazine the opportunity to continue employing some of the finest people in the game.  I'm sure the clubs get their piece too.  Rater camp is all good.

[DMoriarty]

Never been called a member of the PC police before.

Stands for "Private Club police."  Sort of the Pinkertons of the club world.

[Bill_McBride]

Those of us who know JC understand his warped sense of humor.

I really hope the "access whore" comments are just you guys joining
in on the fun.  If your posts are intended to be taken seriously...
god bless you.

"Warped?"  You, sir, are a master of understatement!

It's fun to see him wind guys up!  The lack of emoticons is causing a serious communications crisis.......

[Eric Smith]

Worlds are colliding, Jerry!!

[Chris Shaida]

Never been called a member of the PC police before.

Stands for "Private Club police."  Sort of the Pinkertons of the club world.

David, you're on a roll! this apparently unfunny thread is somehow eliciting your pithy wit (I think that's three on your scoreboard so far!).

[Charlie Goerges]

Oops, I employed the name change as an ironical device on another thread and forgot to change it back. My bad. Will do so straight away.

[John Kavanaugh]

Oops, I employed the name change as an ironical device on another thread and forgot to change it back. My bad. Will do so straight away.

Your Erin Hills thread made the effort of figuring out who you were worthwhile.

[Matthew Petersen]

John...

I'll actually jump on your bandwagon and add 2 cents of my own.

First off, regarding JC's post and your comments regarding financial stability of private clubs.  If he pays the guest fee, it is a win-win.  No?

Secondly, and in line with the more important point, I think golf clubs might be their own worst enemy.  I've heard many, many stories of golf clubs giving away free rounds.  Maybe it is free rounds to employees on their off day and they tee off before the members.  Maybe it is friends and family of the head pro.  Whatever.  These are rounds played that aren't generating any revenue for the clubs.  Waste, shrinkage, pick your term....it doesn't matter.  The management of these clubs are giving away their product and getting nothing in return.  Not good business, in my opinion.  If a club gives away one foursome per day and, lets assume, the fee is $50 then for the calendar year that is a little less than $75,000.  I am not familiar with the economics of a golf club, country club, and the salary structure...but how many jobs could that $75,000 create?  Two, probably.  How many golf clubs in the US alone?  15,000-ish.  Isn't that 30,000 jobs potentially thrown away?

Finally, there is no doubt I am no golf industry expert...so take or leave my comments.  And maybe I am the ignorant idiot as I belong to two clubs and am looking to join #3.  Nevertheless, I agree with the sentiment of your post John.

This assumes that those same rounds would be played and paid for if they weren't "given away." Some of them would still generate income, but I imagine a lot of people (employees of a club especially) aren't going to be able to afford to play all those extra roudns that right now they're getting for free.

[John Kavanaugh]

No one, not even Mac, is against employees playing for free where they work.  I can't imagine anyone against a professional courtesy given to people in the industry.  Come on Mac, what the hell were you thinking.

[George Pazin]

Minor clarification:

I asked people to just post their own lists whenever they feel like it, it doesn't make sense for me to organize. I'd expect a few lists shortly, so the threads haven't faded away, they are simply taking a life of their own.

Carry on...

Master list of lister lists...

[John Kavanaugh]

Where are the recent lists by Matt Ward?  Let's see, where do lists go on my hate list. At least I don't hate them as much as snitches and golf cheats.

[George Pazin]

Sorry, John, I've been printin' Stiller shirts, missed those, I'll look for them and link to them.

[Mac Plumart]

No one, not even Mac, is against employees playing for free where they work.  I can't imagine anyone against a professional courtesy given to people in the industry.  Come on Mac, what the hell were you thinking.

Professional courtesy to someone in the industry?  Like a golf course raters?  This thread clearly illustrates to me the entire problem with the golf course industry.  Seriously, you all are cracked!  

It is insinuated that I treat people at my clubs like indentured servants, when in fact that is the farthest thing from the truth.  Anyone who has ever met me and/or hung out with me at a golf course can attest to that.  And all this stems from the fact that I say employees should have to pay for their golf.  Heck, when I was at Merrill Lynch employees didn't get to trade commission free...and I know for a fact, they still don't.  Viable businesses don't give away their products for free.  If the golf is free, what is next?  Food?  Clothes?  Golf balls?  If you guys are giving these things away, how do you make up for it?  Assessments, higher monthly dues, higher initiation fees?  Probably.  What happens when the economy tanks and you can't raise prices?  Oh yeah, that is right...you go out of business or sell to Trump.

I re-iterate that John has a great point about giving away things for free.  It hurts the club/course/industry...there is no doubt about it.  If a club, from the upper levels of management, makes that call, fine...they are doing it for some reason, but if someone other than the head of the club (or its board or whatever the main decision making body of said club is) makes a decision in the field to give something away, that is a whole 'nother story...and has the potential to hurt the club and to me this is akin to stealing.

I re-iterate that I am not in the golf business and am not privvy to the insider dealings of it, but if this stuff goes on routinely...is it any wonder the industry can't make money and has to look to upping prices charged to their patrons/members to try to simply break even?  

I said I would bow out, but it appears the status quo in the industry is anti-business (or business ignorant) and, therefore, is leaning towards (or has been) charging its customers way too much for too little...and this won't last.  As is evident by the news de jour.  

[Greg Chambers]

Hey Mac,

They call it an employee benefit.  Would you not want the super at your club playing golf?  Would you not want the person in charge of course condiditioning to not know the playability of the course?  Allowing employees to play golf after work is not akin to stealing.  Jeez...

[Anthony Gray]

  How many dreams have come true for JC? My count says 2 certains with 9 left to go.

  Anthony

[John Kavanaugh]

  How many dreams have come true for JC? My count says 2 certains with 9 left to go.

  Anthony

JC is just a guy who just wants to be loved.  He is going to have to give up his access whoring to realize his true dreams.

The only reason I commented on this thread is because I consider him a friend and have witnessed his destructive behavior first hand.

[Mac Plumart]

Allowing employees to play golf after work is not akin to stealing

Greg...

Like I mentioned in my previous post, it all depends on who is allowing it.  The upper most level of management of the club?  Not stealing.  The most junior golf pro making a decision that no one has given him the authority to make.  Stealing.