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Jeff_Brauer

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Who is the leader in practice range design?
« on: January 25, 2011, 11:41:31 AM »
I looked at the TW finished design thread to see it was a private practice range.

No doubt that the practice area has evolved signfigantly in the last decade and a half, but who led the way?

JN had the first circular range that I know of at MV for practicing in all winds.

TFazio has done the most ranges with simulated playing conditions that I know of.

Many university courses have great short game areas.

What are the best practice ranges out there and which architect elevated their state the most?
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Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Gary Slatter

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2011, 11:49:26 AM »
RON GARL has great practice facility designs.
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Gary Slatter
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K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2011, 11:58:46 AM »
I've really enjoyed the time I've spent at Mike Nuzzo's creation at Swanson's Golf Center near Champions Golf Club on the north side of Houston.

http://www.swansongolfcenter.com/sites/courses/layout.asp?id=827&page=49414


The best facility that I've seen at a club is at Coore/Crenshaw's Friar's Head.  Truly an amazing set up.
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Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2011, 12:03:24 PM »
The two that come to my mind are Dallas Ntaional and Briggs Ranch, both superb faclilites and I hate to say it both Fazios.
Another one i love is the Oklahoma State facility at Karsten Creek...another Fazio..oh and Pine Valley..oops another Fazio

I guess my winner is Fazio
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Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2011, 12:15:54 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Krahenbuhl on January 25, 2011, 11:58:46 AM
The best facility that I've seen at a club is at Coore/Crenshaw's Friar's Head.  Truly an amazing set up.

I can remember standing over the bluff to the left on #9 tee with Mr. Bakst and being told where the chipping greens were going to be, where the practice green was going to be and the general size of the tee surface. If memory serves me correctly, the practice green is SO BIG, that it has a sprinkler in the middle of it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 12:19:53 PM by Anthony_Nysse »
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
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K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2011, 12:17:37 PM »
Quote from: Anthony_Nysse on January 25, 2011, 12:15:54 PM
Quote from: Kyle Krahenbuhl on January 25, 2011, 11:58:46 AM
The best facility that I've seen at a club is at Coore/Crenshaw's Friar's Head.  Truly an amazing set up.

I can remember standing over the bluff to the left on #9 tee and being told where the chipping greens were going to be, where the practice green was going to be and the general size of the tee surface. If memory serves me correctly, the practice green is SO BIG, that it has a springler in the middle of it.

I don't think I've ever seen a bigger practice green - or a better contoured one.
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Sam Morrow

Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2011, 12:27:01 PM »
Quote from: Michael Wharton-Palmer on January 25, 2011, 12:03:24 PM
The two that come to my mind are Dallas Ntaional and Briggs Ranch, both superb faclilites and I hate to say it both Fazios.
Another one i love is the Oklahoma State facility at Karsten Creek...another Fazio..oh and Pine Valley..oops another Fazio

I guess my winner is Fazio

His practice area at Fallen Oak is pretty awesome too. I don't know if Doak did the range at The Rawls Course but that's a good one too.
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Jason Topp

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2011, 12:43:07 PM »
I have been very impressed with Art Hills practice facilities at two courses - Chaska Town Course in Minnesota and another course in North Port, FL (Heron Creek).  These facilities are a step above others in short game practice areas - allowing one to practice every conceivable pitch, chip and bunker shot.  They also seem well thought out in terms of where everything is placed to make them convienient and safe.

Here is the layout of the Florida practice area:


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Sam Morrow

Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2011, 01:10:37 PM »
A few more impressive practice areas came to mind, Vaquero (Fazio) and Carlton Woods (Nicklaus). Did Crenshaw and Coore do the short game area on the back range tee at Southern Hills?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 01:13:30 PM by Sam Morrow »
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BCrosby

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2011, 01:21:14 PM »
The PR at the UGA course is not the biggest, prettiest or best groomed I've ever seen. Far from it.

But it might be the best. At the end the teams use, it has areas at which you can practice shots with uneven lies, shots from the rough, and longer shots from bunkers. Maybe there are other PR's that do all that, but I've never seeen one.

Bob
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JMEvensky

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2011, 01:26:15 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on January 25, 2011, 01:21:14 PM
The PR at the UGA course is not the biggest, prettiest or best groomed I've ever seen. Far from it.

But it might be the best. At the end the teams use, it has areas at which you can practice shots with uneven lies, shots from the rough, and longer shots from bunkers. Maybe there are other PR's that do all that, but I've never seeen one.

Bob

The Alotian has something similar.I don't think many teams are practicing there however.
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Mac Plumart

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 01:30:50 PM »
Has anyone built practice ranges that incorporate uneven lies?  I've never seen any range that offers anything other than perfectly flat lies to practice off of.  I, frankly, think that a world class practice facility would offer ways to practice side hill, uphill, and downhill lies. 
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 01:46:47 PM »
Mac,

I recall Dick Phelps telling me 20 years ago that he incorporated a small area of practice tee for uneven lies.
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Niall C

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2011, 02:18:32 PM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 25, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
Has anyone built practice ranges that incorporate uneven lies?  I've never seen any range that offers anything other than perfectly flat lies to practice off of.  I, frankly, think that a world class practice facility would offer ways to practice side hill, uphill, and downhill lies. 

Agreed. There should also be a shower head above you so you can practice playing in the rain at the touch of a button. On a really good range they would also have the greenstaff throwing snowballs at you while whipping you across the face with gravel so you get the authentic feel of playing in the north of Scotland in the mddle of winter.

No emoticons is becoming a pain, is it not ?

Niall
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Mac Plumart

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2011, 04:39:50 PM »
Niall...I didn't think of the shower head, but you might be on to something there.  (insert winking emoticon)
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2011, 05:01:50 PM »
Tom Fazio has spent more $$$ building practice ranges and practice holes around them, than many architects have spent building golf courses in their lives.  (Kind of sad, really.)  I just saw his new range at Augusta National a couple of weeks ago, and it will top them all.
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2011, 05:11:50 PM »
Quote from: Michael Wharton-Palmer on January 25, 2011, 12:03:24 PM
The two that come to my mind are Dallas Ntaional and Briggs Ranch, both superb faclilites and I hate to say it both Fazios.
Another one i love is the Oklahoma State facility at Karsten Creek...another Fazio..oh and Pine Valley..oops another Fazio

I guess my winner is Fazio

I have to agree on Fazio.  The one done at Martis Camp in Lake Tahoe is among the best I have seen.
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Wade Whitehead

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2011, 05:20:32 PM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 25, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
Has anyone built practice ranges that incorporate uneven lies?  I've never seen any range that offers anything other than perfectly flat lies to practice off of.  I, frankly, think that a world class practice facility would offer ways to practice side hill, uphill, and downhill lies. 

Kinloch.

WW
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Kyle Henderson

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2011, 05:37:52 PM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 25, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
Has anyone built practice ranges that incorporate uneven lies?  I've never seen any range that offers anything other than perfectly flat lies to practice off of.  I, frankly, think that a world class practice facility would offer ways to practice side hill, uphill, and downhill lies. 

Ballyneal and Clear Creek Tahoe come to mind.
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Paul Jones

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2011, 07:59:19 PM »
Didn't Tiger just finish a practice facility at Jupiter Island?  Anyone seen it ?
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Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Joe Grasty

Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 10:23:51 PM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 25, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
Has anyone built practice ranges that incorporate uneven lies?  I've never seen any range that offers anything other than perfectly flat lies to practice off of.  I, frankly, think that a world class practice facility would offer ways to practice side hill, uphill, and downhill lies. 

Hank Haney Golf Ranch in Lewisville, TX, has a few positions with some slope on them.  Not dramatic, but I use them once in a while.

Golden Bear in Carrollton, TX has a fairway bunker you can hit out of on the range, and a pretty respectable short game area.  The putting green has some pretty subtle breaks that are tricky to read and the speed matches the better golf courses in the area that have bermuda greens.
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mike_beene

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2011, 11:20:00 PM »
jeff,what do you think of the Royal Oaks practice area?I like it better than Dallas National.A two ended range that is narrow enough to have definition,fairway trap to hit from,any slope you coulees want,every short game shot imaginable on the greens behind the range,plus different grasses that can be set up to simulate different courses.I find the range at DN has to much slope,especially on the side that points to the prevailing wind and is uphill.An uphill range ruins a lot of games as people start falling back.It is really hard to beat Maniac Hill in Pinehurst and especially the putting and short game area.Also,I love the short game area at St Andrews but it is hard to forgive what it did to Eden.I don't like a short game area that has no flat lies,and the three mentioned are my favorite.Don't know who gets the design credit.I have not been invited to practice with Tiger yet but if that happens I will report.
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Sam Morrow

Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2011, 01:19:45 AM »
Quote from: mike_beene on January 30, 2011, 11:20:00 PM
jeff,what do you think of the Royal Oaks practice area?I like it better than Dallas National.A two ended range that is narrow enough to have definition,fairway trap to hit from,any slope you coulees want,every short game shot imaginable on the greens behind the range,plus different grasses that can be set up to simulate different courses.I find the range at DN has to much slope,especially on the side that points to the prevailing wind and is uphill.An uphill range ruins a lot of games as people start falling back.It is really hard to beat Maniac Hill in Pinehurst and especially the putting and short game area.Also,I love the short game area at St Andrews but it is hard to forgive what it did to Eden.I don't like a short game area that has no flat lies,and the three mentioned are my favorite.Don't know who gets the design credit.I have not been invited to practice with Tiger yet but if that happens I will report.

I like the Royal Oaks practice area, one of my under the radar favorites is the one at Mira Vista. I'm curious to see what is done with the range at Lakewood.
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 01:31:27 AM »
The Royal Oaks range is functional, but too small and not very artistic, which IMHO diminishes its value somewhat.
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Bruce Hospes

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Re: Who is the leader in practice range design?
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2011, 07:29:36 AM »
Quote from: Mac Plumart on January 25, 2011, 01:30:50 PM
Has anyone built practice ranges that incorporate uneven lies?  I've never seen any range that offers anything other than perfectly flat lies to practice off of.  I, frankly, think that a world class practice facility would offer ways to practice side hill, uphill, and downhill lies. 


The range at Andalusia in La Quinta has an area on the back side to practice uneven lies. 

Bruce
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