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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2011, 01:18:54 PM »
I treat singles like anybody else.  Regardless of how fast we are playing, if a group is consistently on our ass and there is space (1 full hole) I will wave any group through.  If we stop to look for a ball and it is apparent it will take a spell and there is a group on the tee - I wave them through.  If a single is waiting behind, after a few holes it looks like he knows what he is doing, regardless if we are keeping pace, I will wave him through.  I figure it may be busy, but I have let a much faster group through and its not a big deal to do so.  These are the polite and proper things to do regardless of the time of day or how crowded I believe the course to be.  Its that simple folks.  If we want to encourage faster play we can't punish 1, 2 or 3 balls for the sake of the sacred 4 ball.  

To me, its much easier to reserve early times for 2 balls and not allow 4 balls out until 10ish or 11ish.  That way like for like groups sizes are out at the same time and the quick 2ball/1ball can't complain.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 01:21:59 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2011, 04:25:16 PM »
Why isn't there a starter putting the singles and twosomes together?  Oh yeah, chatting up the cart girl!  :)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2011, 05:18:41 PM »
I treat singles like anybody else.  Regardless of how fast we are playing, if a group is consistently on our ass and there is space (1 full hole) I will wave any group through.  If we stop to look for a ball and it is apparent it will take a spell and there is a group on the tee - I wave them through.  If a single is waiting behind, after a few holes it looks like he knows what he is doing, regardless if we are keeping pace, I will wave him through.  I figure it may be busy, but I have let a much faster group through and its not a big deal to do so.  These are the polite and proper things to do regardless of the time of day or how crowded I believe the course to be.  Its that simple folks.  If we want to encourage faster play we can't punish 1, 2 or 3 balls for the sake of the sacred 4 ball.  

To me, its much easier to reserve early times for 2 balls and not allow 4 balls out until 10ish or 11ish.  That way like for like groups sizes are out at the same time and the quick 2ball/1ball can't complain.

Ciao

Spot on Sean about 2 balls first-although in the fast lane of NY that means from 7-8.
Sean I think we all share the same sentiment as you about letting any group thru if you're holding them up and there's room in front.
However, let three or four groups of one or two players through and you you've added 15-30 minutes to your round(it does take time to let a group thru) and now you are out of position and being caught by a group who teed off 40 minutes after you -which really gets upsetting when the wall of nonconforming groups inevitably gets held up by a full course and you're stuck behind THEM, and finish an hour later than you should.
management has to control when smaller(mainly singles) groups go out, and if they are allowed out, has to manage their expectations about how many groups they can plow thru.

There's a reason singles HAVE NO STANDING ON THE COURSE
which doesn't mean they don't get to go through, it just means they may need to be keenly aware of the actual circumstances ahead of them before they assume they can go through.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2011, 06:16:42 PM »
Being a new member of GCA and reading through past posts I have decided that Hell may freeze over before I post anything actually regarding the origins of famous courses or golf architecture in general. Who needs the slings and arrows? I probably sound pretentious enough already. To heck with discussion of famous courses.

If you don't want to talk about golf architecture, then why post on here?? 

You don't have to discuss "famous courses," but it would be a lot more interesting to hear you talk about courses that you like/don't like, features that you like/don't like and so on than to hear you complain about not being invited to play through. Surely you have more to contribute than this?

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2011, 07:53:16 PM »

Curious whether Bandon will allow 40 consecutives singles to play at The Kings Putter....(I can't get emoticons to work)

From our experience there at the Bandon, the desk and/or starter there normally pairs folks up, like it or not.. this is in contrast to our first experience at TOC (1996) when whomever gets the tee time has it to themselves.. is it still like that there?
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2011, 08:25:38 PM »
Jeff, the Rules were changed, I think, regarding singles having no standing on the course.  It now reads:

Quote
Priority on the Course

Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group's pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term "group" includes a single player.

"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2011, 10:17:08 PM »
Jeff, the Rules were changed, I think, regarding singles having no standing on the course.  It now reads:

Quote
Priority on the Course

Unless otherwise determined by the Committee, priority on the course is determined by a group's pace of play. Any group playing a whole round is entitled to pass a group playing a shorter round. The term "group" includes a single player.



"the term "group" includes a single player"
 ---no wonder golf is in trouble.....
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 10:39:33 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2011, 10:58:41 PM »

Curious whether Bandon will allow 40 consecutives singles to play at The Kings Putter....(I can't get emoticons to work)

From our experience there at the Bandon, the desk and/or starter there normally pairs folks up, like it or not.. this is in contrast to our first experience at TOC (1996) when whomever gets the tee time has it to themselves.. is it still like that there?

Yes, but singles can't get a tee time.

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2011, 12:44:32 AM »
"the term "group" includes a single player"
 ---no wonder golf is in trouble.....

Yup, makes no sense to me. 
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2011, 02:02:11 AM »
I treat singles like anybody else.  Regardless of how fast we are playing, if a group is consistently on our ass and there is space (1 full hole) I will wave any group through.  If we stop to look for a ball and it is apparent it will take a spell and there is a group on the tee - I wave them through.  If a single is waiting behind, after a few holes it looks like he knows what he is doing, regardless if we are keeping pace, I will wave him through.  I figure it may be busy, but I have let a much faster group through and its not a big deal to do so.  These are the polite and proper things to do regardless of the time of day or how crowded I believe the course to be.  Its that simple folks.  If we want to encourage faster play we can't punish 1, 2 or 3 balls for the sake of the sacred 4 ball.  

To me, its much easier to reserve early times for 2 balls and not allow 4 balls out until 10ish or 11ish.  That way like for like groups sizes are out at the same time and the quick 2ball/1ball can't complain.

Ciao

Spot on Sean about 2 balls first-although in the fast lane of NY that means from 7-8.
Sean I think we all share the same sentiment as you about letting any group thru if you're holding them up and there's room in front.
However, let three or four groups of one or two players through and you you've added 15-30 minutes to your round(it does take time to let a group thru) and now you are out of position and being caught by a group who teed off 40 minutes after you -which really gets upsetting when the wall of nonconforming groups inevitably gets held up by a full course and you're stuck behind THEM, and finish an hour later than you should.
management has to control when smaller(mainly singles) groups go out, and if they are allowed out, has to manage their expectations about how many groups they can plow thru.

There's a reason singles HAVE NO STANDING ON THE COURSE
which doesn't mean they don't get to go through, it just means they may need to be keenly aware of the actual circumstances ahead of them before they assume they can go through.


I think it a rarity for several 2ball/singles to follow a 4ball and for them to be quick enough to push through.  However, should this come to pass, one has to exercise common sense and that would usually include getting your 4ball to move faster and pressure the group ahead.  I don't buy the argument that 4balls are the king of the course and that the pace of play should be set by them or that 4 hours or just over is THE pace of play.  Every group has the responsibility to keep up and/or allow groups through.  Its seems to be some sort of manly he man thing not to allow folks through when the group behind is clearly faster.  I am happy to that group go even if I don't think they can go anywhere because its not down to me to decide if they actually can get anywhere.  I have personally gone through several groups in a game - it is possible if folks are reasonable.  Again, if a 4ball thinks they are gonna have problems the entire day with quicker groups then they have to figure out where to draw the line with their largesse.  I too can understand that folks can only take so much of being Mr Nice Guy. 

I still believe the way around this sort of problem is to reserve early times for 2balls and then some time for 3balls (again, with common sense prevailing if the course is empty - no hard and fast rules) with 4balls only allowed out later.  We all know that 4ball is the slowest form of the game and so clubs should be finding ways to reduce their impact rather than letting them have free reign and clogging up courses all day long. 

Ciao 

New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Why the Hell won't anyone let me play through on a Public Course New
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2011, 07:54:49 AM »
I treat singles like anybody else.  Regardless of how fast we are playing, if a group is consistently on our ass and there is space (1 full hole) I will wave any group through.  If we stop to look for a ball and it is apparent it will take a spell and there is a group on the tee - I wave them through.  If a single is waiting behind, after a few holes it looks like he knows what he is doing, regardless if we are keeping pace, I will wave him through.  I figure it may be busy, but I have let a much faster group through and its not a big deal to do so.  These are the polite and proper things to do regardless of the time of day or how crowded I believe the course to be.  Its that simple folks.  If we want to encourage faster play we can't punish 1, 2 or 3 balls for the sake of the sacred 4 ball.  

To me, its much easier to reserve early times for 2 balls and not allow 4 balls out until 10ish or 11ish.  That way like for like groups sizes are out at the same time and the quick 2ball/1ball can't complain.

Ciao

Spot on Sean about 2 balls first-although in the fast lane of NY that means from 7-8.
Sean I think we all share the same sentiment as you about letting any group thru if you're holding them up and there's room in front.
However, let three or four groups of one or two players through and you you've added 15-30 minutes to your round(it does take time to let a group thru) and now you are out of position and being caught by a group who teed off 40 minutes after you -which really gets upsetting when the wall of nonconforming groups inevitably gets held up by a full course and you're stuck behind THEM, and finish an hour later than you should.
management has to control when smaller(mainly singles) groups go out, and if they are allowed out, has to manage their expectations about how many groups they can plow thru.

There's a reason singles HAVE NO STANDING ON THE COURSE
which doesn't mean they don't get to go through, it just means they may need to be keenly aware of the actual circumstances ahead of them before they assume they can go through.


I think it a rarity for several 2ball/singles to follow a 4ball and for them to be quick enough to push through.  However, should this come to pass, one has to exercise common sense and that would usually include getting your 4ball to move faster and pressure the group ahead.  I don't buy the argument that 4balls are the king of the course and that the pace of play should be set by them or that 4 hours or just over is THE pace of play.  Every group has the responsibility to keep up and/or allow groups through.  Its seems to be some sort of manly he man thing not to allow folks through when the group behind is clearly faster.  I am happy to that group go even if I don't think they can go anywhere because its not down to me to decide if they actually can get anywhere.  I have personally gone through several groups in a game - it is possible if folks are reasonable.  Again, if a 4ball thinks they are gonna have problems the entire day with quicker groups then they have to figure out where to draw the line with their largesse.  I too can understand that folks can only take so much of being Mr Nice Guy.  

I still believe the way around this sort of problem is to reserve early times for 2balls and then some time for 3balls (again, with common sense prevailing if the course is empty - no hard and fast rules) with 4balls only allowed out later.  We all know that 4ball is the slowest form of the game and so clubs should be finding ways to reduce their impact rather than letting them have free reign and clogging up courses all day long.  

Ciao  



Sean, In the uS, whether we like it or not, 4 balls are the "normal "size group on a busy day
On a weekend at my club in peak season, I may have 15 consecutive 4 balls from 8 until 11. Then perhaps the tee settles for 15-30 minutes and a twoball attempts to go out.
they just need to understand that they can't go through 15 consecutive groups.
We do our best to allow smaller groups first (two balls from 7-8), but when there are none around at 8 I'm going to start the 4 balls.
There's always the odd two ball or two who won't pair up but they play at my mercy or not at all if it's busy.
Of course I try to slip them out into gaps and I try to put faster groups on the same side of the golf course.
But 2-10 golfers who can't find friends (and won't join up when asked to) can't be allowed to run amok amongst members playing a game at an appropriate 3-4 ball pace on a busy course.
As you say common sense should prevail.
But if golfers had inate common sense and common courtesy(and consistently applied it), I'd be out of a job, and we'd have a courtesy box.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 09:17:13 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

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