[Andy Troeger]

Mark,
I wouldn't put Longbow up with Vista Verde either, but its a pretty good value compared to a lot of the public options in the valley. I can't speak for either of the two courses Matt suggested instead, but I'd give Longbow a try if the price is right. I also like Kavanaugh's Gold Canyon Dinosaur Mountain course. Its cartball but the view of the Superstition Mountains are worth it and most of the holes are pretty good. 

[Mark Smolens]

Andy, I thought Dinosaur Mountain was way overpriced. The women's tees were very playable for my Mom, but I shelled out $150 apiece for the two of us and that was a bummer. Looks like Tom Yost is going to join me at Longbow some time next week (been to Trilogy and Verrado).

[Andy Troeger]

$150 for Dinosaur Mountain sounds like the high end of their price range. In any case, for that amount, you can do better (Saguaro!). Glad Tom will be able to join you at Longbow, I enjoyed my round there and its more walkable than most area courses.

[Tom Yost]

One of the things I like about Longbow is it is a core golf course, not routed through any housing corridors.  The adjacent property, zoned for office and light business, is yet to be developed so for now, there are nice views to the mountains and down to the valley. The openness also brings the wind into play.  The course is maintained firm and fast.  One can see similarities in the bunkering and greens with Vista Verde. Both courses are fairly generous off of the tee, but with tricky greens.  Coupled with the subtle tilt of the property(s) and the micro contours on the greens, putting can be the challenge at both Longbow and VV.  Longbow is not what would be considered a lay-of-the-land type of course, more of the sporty, engineered design, but certainly fun to play.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Longbow is a good contrast to the steady diet of house engulfing layouts.

The issue for many concerning SR is the tightness and frankly it's not tighter than DF and that generally
gets rave reviews.

[Doug Wright]

One of the things I like about Longbow is it is a core golf course, not routed through any housing corridors.  The adjacent property, zoned for office and light business, is yet to be developed so for now, there are nice views to the mountains and down to the valley. The openness also brings the wind into play.  The course is maintained firm and fast.  One can see similarities in the bunkering and greens with Vista Verde. Both courses are fairly generous off of the tee, but with tricky greens.  Coupled with the subtle tilt of the property(s) and the micro contours on the greens, putting can be the challenge at both Longbow and VV.  Longbow is not what would be considered a lay-of-the-land type of course, more of the sporty, engineered design, but certainly fun to play.

i played Longbow for the first time last winter and thought it was a solid course, decent variety and some fun greens. Vista Verde is clearly better (especially the greens), but I've added Longbow to my options when visiting the Valley of the Sun, and plan to play there later this month (I'm playing Vista Verde and Talking Stick N/S next week). It does seem to be a decent high season value as well.

Interesting that I haven't been back to Sunridge since playing it about 10 yearas ago. I've certainly had the opportunities to do so. I recall liking the course just fine, and there were some really good holes especially around the turn at the bottom of the valley. I can't say I was crazy about the downhill then uphill routing. Maybe that is it.

PS At $150-$175 for non residents right now, Sunridge is not an attractive proposition. One would think the new owners would be looking to draw more traffic.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

According to the rate schedule, it pays to book in advance, be an AZ resident, play after 2pm or don't play in prime season if you are a visitor:

http://www.sunridgegolf.com/scottsdale-arizone-golf-course_9.html

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

The issue for AZ will be can all the current players survive. Frankly, many of them should be concerned if courses start to move into the "bargain" rate game because there's no end to that spiral. Staying with very high in-season rates only drives m,ore customers to the sidelines. The glory days with everyone feeding off the table are now gone.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt

I hope the new "MomPop" owners get your message if they want to attract visitors during prime season. Sunridge Canyon in not on golfnow.com and I don't think they honor the SWPGA Pass which, by the way, is one the great deals in AZ golf.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Frankly, it's my belief that the AZ golf market would gain immeasurably if no less than 10-15% of the golf course marketplace just disappeared. All of the layouts can't survivie and when "bargain basement" strategies get introduced there's no end to that downward spiral as each course outdoes the other -- only to further hurt their overall bottom line. Once you introduce bargain basement pricing the golf populatilon serviced by that expects that to continuie -- indefinitely.

You are so right about the golf card concept but places like SunRidge Canyon need to demonstrate that they really attract players for the long haul -- sensible pricing along with some elimination of the excess golf course base does thatr. Think of the west vallet area -- it was built primarily on speculation and is now paying a huge price for that.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

In the West Valley, there are 2 top public courses: Raven@Verrado & GC@ Estrella Mountain. The Wigwam Gold &Red courses are primarily resort courses but good public rates can be found there at golfnow.com. Most other courses are $50 or less and do not not attract the Scottsdale visitor crowd.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

No doubt the west vallety offers the lower rates -- because they need to do it !

Scottsdale lives in a bubble world -- this week for the tournament crystalizes that in a big time way.

[Rob Rigg]

Tom,

I hadn't heard that Sunridge was a good or even decent walk before - I'll PM you next time I'm in town with some time to tee it - I looked on Google Earth a while back and it looked pretty tight with quite a bit of elevation change - sounds like it is worth a go based on everyone's comments. I'll probably have to hit 3W off the tee a bunch if it is that tight but at 6,800 in PHX that isn't the end of the world.

Saguaro is a real gem - definitely wide - but a nice change of pace from some of the tighter house lined courses that I have played in the area - really want to check out Southern Dunes and it sounds like Longbow might be cool if its a core routing.

[Matt_Ward]

Rob,

One doesn't walk SR lightly. There are serious hills to climb towards the end of the round as you leave the bottom canyon area for the return to the clubhouse. I don't make an issue with the "must walk" to be rated syndrome. So long as the cart rides are not an overwhelming central feature I see no problem with courses that have them. No doubt -- others do.

The issue at SR is proper positioning off the tee -- it's no tighter or penal than DF but far too many people overdose on layouts with mega width -- get a place that tweaks the presentation a bit differently and you get the likely howls of it being too restrictive off the tee.

Southern Dunes and Longbow are worth playing -- especially SD.

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