Whether CBM had found those particular holes before or after the seller agreed to sell him 205 acres, CBM found the land which fit in with course he had in mind before he actually optioned the property. Even then he didn't totally lock himself in, leaving himself some leeway to adjust the boundaries if necessitated by the detailed plan. David,
Really? Can you be any more specific?
Honestly, David, what does that mean? How is what you've described different or unique from any golf course project at any time? What does "fit in" mean, anyway?
I thought routing a golf course was/is about the process of finding and locating actual golf holes on the ground, or on paper and forming a continuous placement and order of same for all 18 holes?
Is it your contention that the routing for NGLA was planned prior to the securing of that property or not?Frankly, I think you're trying to have it both ways because neither what CBM says in "Scotland's Gift" or what CBM said in those news articles that came out after he secured the property in December 1906 do not support what you and Patrick have been contending in the least.
Let's go through it again and perhaps this time you'll understand my answer.
First, CBM tells us about the previously unsurveyed 450 acre property they located for consideration, "having a mile frontage on Peconic Bay", so yes, THAT is the land they were looking at and not something I "made up".
Second, he tells us that it abounded in bogs, swamps, insects, and an entanglement of undergrowth and bushes making it unwalkable and only negotiable via horseback.
Third, he and Whigham spent two or three days riding over it, studying the contours of the ground and decided that the land had enough potential that they knew it was what they wanted if they could get a fair price. We also know from those same contemporaneous articles I posted that during that time they located land for an Alps, nearby a natural redan, an inlet where they could create a forced-carry Eden, and the water along which to build the Cape hole. They also mention a Short Hole at the point at the end of Bulls Head Bay, but that was never constructed.
Fourth, the company "agreed to sell us 205 acres and we were permitted to locate it as best to serve our purpose". THIS was the SECURING of the property, and this is the point when those articles were written. Fifth,
AFTER securing the property, "AGAIN we studied the contours earnestly; selecting those that would fit in naturally with the various classical holes I had in mind,
AFTER which we staked out the land we wanted".So, first they secured 205 acres, then as CBM clearly tells us in those articles, they spent the next several months deciding which holes to reproduce and the yardages of the holes...essentially, ROUTING the golf course. Then, later in 1907, construction began.
Also, as regards Max Behr's 1915 statement, when was he there when all this was happening? Was he involved in the project?
Bryan,
Thanks for coming to this thread and introducing some sanity. Hopefully you'll stick around once the flurry of insults starts when they don't like what you are objectively and unbiasedly pointing out here.
Frankly, I think the whole Atlantic Ocean thing is a total
RED to distract from a message that Patrick doesn't like because it doesn't fit with his mythological view of CBM performing magic in a day or two on impassible land.
I have no doubt, and have heard from others who grew up on Long Island, and who have seen old pictures of the course that the Atlantic was in view from same places on the property. I'm not even going to address such attempted distractions from the real point here further except to point out that your views of the Atlantic wouldn't only be due south across Shinnecock, but also southwest across Cold Spring Bay.
One thing I did want to thank you for as well is pointing out that there are about 40 unused acres today out of the 205 acres they secured. It was never my contention that the course was 110 acres as has been misrepresented. I said that was CBM's original thought, as outlined in his 1904 Founders agreement. In it, he specified seeking 205 acres, where about 110 would be used for the golf course, 5 for clubhouse and surrounds, and the remainder for 1.5 acre building lots for the founders.
Obviously, this changed for some reasons I've expanded on here such as the dramatic expansion of fairway widths beyond what CBM targeted even as late as August 1907 into construction. The went from a targeted 50-55 yards to today averaging about 72 yards at their widest points. Given that those lots were intended to run around the perimeter of the golf course, it's likely the fairway width increase made that plan unfeasible.
I think even if CBM had been able to keep the course to 135 acres, which seems reasonable for what was targeted at just over 6,000 yards originally, he could have met his goal to provide building lots, but once he expanded his fairway acreage by 37%, or almost 30 acres, it got into that 165 acre range you pointed out, and it's tough to split 40 remaining acres among 60-70 founders for cottages, so that idea went by the wayside and likely some other financial recompense was worked out.
Jim Nugent,
You are correct about the sequence of events but the one important thing to keep in mind is that when CBM "secured" 205 acres it was left to him to decide later which 205 acres of the 450 available to purchase.
The Securing of the land happened in December 1906 according to news reports (CBM's book says November), but the actual purchase with the defined boundaries didn't happen til the spring of 1907, after the course was routed. George Bahto's book says the purchase actually didn't happen until November 1907, so I'm not sure the reason for that difference.
All,
Here is what CBM told us AFTER he secured the 205 acres;
One thing to consider when thinking about the routing is the fact that CBM tells us they didn't have money to build a clubhouse and instead counted on using the coming Shinnecock Inn for that purpose.
Given the fixed location of the Inn out by today's 9th green, it may give us some idea of some of the constraints and compromises CBM may possibly have had to make.
We know he surely wanted to get his course down to the waters of both Bullshead Bay and more dramatically Peconic Bay, but the Shinnecock Inn was about two miles from there. So, perhaps that's what Behr was referring to when he said that the routing sort of dictated itself.
I bring this up because last year Geoff Walsh and I were fortunate enough to play Sebonack in the morning and NGLA in the afternoon, and after viewing all of the dramatic waterfront property of Sebonack, Geoff asked me the logical question which I didn't have a good answer to, which was, "why didn't CBM take this property, or some combination of this property and NGLA?"
I think the answer is probably not straightforward, but if having that Inn as the clubhouse was something mandatory, that certainly created one very fixed point for the routing and a limitation on which of the 450 acres they could effectively use.
Here is what CBM said about that issue;
We did not have enough money to consider building
a club-house at once, so our intention was to have the first hole close
to the Shinnecock Inn, which had recently been built by the Realty
Company. 'The old saying, "Ill blows the wind that profits nobody,"
is quite apropos here, for the Inn burned down in 1909,
which drove us to building a club-house.
We abandoned the site near the old Shinnccock Inn and determined
to build it on the high ground overlooking Peconic Bay; so
our first hole now is what was intended to be the tenth, and our
eighteenth hole is what was intended to be the ninth. This proved
most fortunate, for to-day we have nn unexcelled site. There are no
more beautiful golfing vistas in the world than those from the National
Golf Club, unless it be those from the Mid-Ocean Club in
Bermuda.
I first placed the golf holes which were almost unanimously
considered the finest of their character in Great Britain. We found
a setting for the Alps hole which the Whighams, fine golfers, who
were brought up in Prestwick, considered to be superior to the
original type. Strange as it may seem, we had but to look back and
find a perfect Redan whieh was absolutely natural. Ben Sayers,
well-known professional at North Berwick, told me he thought it
superior to the original.
....and then goes on to describe placement of the Eden and Cape as well, just like the articles point out. That was all that was done by the time the property was secured and the articles merely confirm what CBM later wrote in his book.
Thanks for your your interest and participation here.