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J_ Crisham

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Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« on: January 14, 2011, 09:30:28 PM »
 This past year was an educational one  for me architecturally. I had the good fortune to play some fine courses with fellow GCAers and see firsthand the design elements that elevate certain clubs. Looking at photos of par 5's played this past season illustrated the greatness of the design features that make for both challenging yet fun holes. My list is below(In order of play)- I would enjoy seeing what par 5 's you found enjoyable last season and why.
                  
              
1. Pebble Beach #6 : Why do we not hear more about this hole ? Great driving hole -the second shot is terrifying! It just tempts you to lift  up your head!

2. MPCC Shore #10 : Great vistas the entire length of the hole and just an incredible greensite. We hole thought it was probably a touch easier than the 600 yd 12th in the wind!

3. Cypress Point Club #5 : For a short par 5 the options presented for the player are numerous. Some wonderful bunkering that really frames the shots from  tee ,layup, and approach. Beautiful movement to the terrain in this area of the course.

4. Beverly CC. #7 : Demanding tee shot that must carry a 25 foot high rise at 220 yds. Sounds easy except the prevailing breeze is  usually in your face! Beautifully framed hole that tightens as you approach the green. At 570 yds it is a true 3 shotter for even long hitters. Nice green complex as well.

5. Prairie Dunes #17 : Great tee shot to a blind landing area. The 3rd shot is uphill and pretty scary as a miss short is a certain double. Another tremendous greensite by Maxwell.

6. Shoreacres #15 : Another hole at SA with a superior greensite. Very interesting bunkering as well. One of Raynor best Par 5's IMO.

7. Butler #7 : A true 3 shotter.  Each shot must be long, very precise and well positioned. At 623 yds not sure that this could be hit from the back tees in 2 - even by todays young guns. Green is also small and well bunkered.

8. Oakland Hills #18 : Great short par 5 risk reward hole for  amateurs. For the tour pros it's a beast of a par 4. Good chance for birdie if you can properly judge your short iron approach- saw a fellow GCAer make an unbelievable 4 from the front left bunker!

9. NGLA #18 : A hole that can be easy or a brute depending on wind direction. The tee shot is crucial- go left and all kinds of numbers come into play! You see some very interesting green side shots here due to the wind and the 18th's exposed greensite.

10. Shinnecock #16 : At 520 yds this hole was my favorite par 5 played last year. It could be reachable in 2 given a helping wind but as such the green defends par very well. The bunkering is spectacular both in the fairways and greenside. The view of Shinny's clubhouse is pretty nice from 16 as well.


   What par 5's did you play last season that were inspiring ?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 09:34:11 PM by Jack Crisham »

JR Potts

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Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 09:34:32 PM »
Jesus!  You played all these couses this last year with GCA'ers?  I need to start access-whoring!  :)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 09:37:25 PM by Ryan Potts »

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 09:42:18 PM »
Jesus!  You played all these couses this last year with GCA'ers?  I need to start access-whoring!  :)
Ryan, Believe it or not I played 8 of them with a U of I GCAer! No whoring involved- just well scheduled golf trips over the summer/fall . Leave the Gates of Medinah and come join us!

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 09:49:10 PM »
:)

I already said, I'm bringing you guys to the gates of Medinah next year.

And leaving the gates of Medinah the least of my problems/limitations - one must only point to my three kids under 7, wife and hourly law practice for that.

K. Krahenbuhl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2011, 10:35:55 PM »
That's a great list Jack.  I'd add these 10 (in no order) along with some of those you listed...

1) California Golf Club #15
2) Whispering Pines (TX) #2
3) Dormie Club #17
4) Garden City GC #4
5) Sebonack #18
6) Merion #4
7) Austin Golf #9
8 ) Shoal Creek #17
9) Friars Head #7
10) Friars Head #14

For my tastes the par 5 can be the hardest hole to make a standout, but these all stuck in my mind as being really good.  I think one of the things that quite a few of these have in common is center bunkering at some point on the hole - something I typically love on a long hole.  The pair of 7 and 14 at Friar's Head may get my nod for best of the best.  Those are without a doubt two of my favorites anywhere.  

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2011, 10:47:38 PM »
Kyle, Great call on Garden City #4. As you may recall, I spent that hole in Susan Lucci's backyard for a smooth double. 18 at Sebonac was a near miss as top10 par5s as well. Hard to beat the bunkering. Cal Club is also a course with strong par5s. Need to get to Friars Head!

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2011, 10:52:50 PM »
Jesus!  You played all these couses this last year with GCA'ers?  I need to start access-whoring!  :)

Ryan, I have it on good authority that the FDA is considering a special emergency grant to the City of Rockford due to an outbreak of gingivitis last year...
Dave, was going to mention the special back nine with you and Paul at Ravisloe but then I remembered he was looking for his phone for 8 holes!

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2011, 10:56:06 PM »
Jesus!  You played all these couses this last year with GCA'ers?  I need to start access-whoring!  :)

Ryan, I have it on good authority that the FDA is considering a special emergency grant to the City of Rockford due to an outbreak of gingivitis last year...
Dave, was going to mention the special back nine with you and Paul at Ravisloe but then I remembered he was looking for his phone for 8 holes!

i did finally find the fucking thing...yeesh, what a stupid i was
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2011, 11:02:45 AM »
I really liked 14 at Sagebrush, complete with Phillipe Binette's bunker behind the green.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 12:54:53 PM by Sean Leary »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2011, 11:12:44 AM »
all the par fives at Ballyhack and Kinloch

the snaky one (i think it's number 6) at Golden Horseshoe...it's narrow, but a fun, rolling, rumply narrow.

Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2011, 11:47:41 AM »
12 and 16 Addington.  They are both thrilling holes over wild terrain.  I hit 3-wood, 7-iron into 16 one of my rounds, and the first time I played 12 I killed a drive down the middle and never found it!  These holes show how routing creates great excitement.  I liked 2 at Addington, with its subtle fallaway green, as well.

9 at North Berwick.  Sure, this hole is on some of the less exciting land at NB, but I loved this split-fairway par five along the boundary line.  I also thought it was interesting that the golfer can drive away from the boundary wall and still make a four. The hole has a great elevated green as a capper.

16 at Huntercombe.  Very short for a par five, but the hole is highly unique and very fun.  I loved the centerline hazard off the tee that catches the unsuspecting long straight-ball.  Then, the huge crater makes for an effective but negotiable hazard on the second shot.  Although the hole is only around 470 yards, the golfer still has to hit two well-struck and well-placed shots to reach the two-tiered green in two.  The hole shows how a par five can be really effective at short distance.

3 and 16 at Deal.  These par fives, along with those at Addington, were the highlights of the year architecturally speaking.  3 is wonderfully simple, a rolling, straightaway hole that ends with a brilliant and thoroughly maddening punchbowl green.  Any approach shot that fails to make the bowl leaves a very difficult recovery.  16, on the other hand is wonderfully complex.  The drive should be played well left of the WWII pillbox, leaving an uneven lie for the second shot.  When the hole is downwind, the green is very reachable, but never very hit-able.  The prudent play, regardless of wind, seems to be a short layup into the "Valley of Inglorious Security" followed by a wedge approach that avoids the giant mound fronting the green.  Of course, egos get in the way, and many a golfer will find himself short of the green with no clear recovery route to make four.  The green, rolling and heaving in every direction, provides a final defense on this brilliant short par five.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2011, 11:56:39 AM »
With GCA'ers this year:

8 - Ballyneal, CO
18 - Sebonack, NY

Non GCA:

3 - Fenway, NY
1 on 4th 9 - Montclair, NJ
« Last Edit: January 15, 2011, 08:39:24 PM by Jaeger Kovich »

Garland Bayley

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Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 12:12:00 PM »
I really liked 14 at Sagebrush, complete with Phillipe Binet's bunker behind the green.

Sean,

Is 14 the one that steps down two shelves on the hillside? That the one I thought of when I saw the subject of this thread.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 12:19:51 PM »
I really liked 14 at Sagebrush, complete with Phillipe Binet's bunker behind the green.

Sean,

Is 14 the one that steps down two shelves on the hillside? That the one I thought of when I saw the subject of this thread.


No I think that is 16. 14 is the one right after the short par 4 in front of the Hideout...

Bob Jenkins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2011, 12:24:05 PM »

Garland,

Sagebrush 14 is the par 5 following the short, downhill par 4 13th. 14 has a slightly elevated tee and bends back uphill around the hillside to the smallest green on the course. It is reachable in 2 for the big boys.

The long downhill par 5 is 16 which provides the most entertaining second shot, ie. .downill onto a slope that will hopefully kick the ball forward and onto a massive green of some 22,000 square feet. I think 16 was the hole you recalled.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2011, 12:24:53 PM »
I really liked 14 at Sagebrush, complete with Phillipe Binet's bunker behind the green.

Sean,

Is 14 the one that steps down two shelves on the hillside? That the one I thought of when I saw the subject of this thread.


No I think that is 16. 14 is the one right after the short par 4 in front of the Hideout...

Yep, I looked up Matt's thread. 16 is the one I thought about. I hadn't seen a par 5 like it before. However, it may be that Desert Canyon #16? made it two stepped down par 5s in a row for me. I did not like Desert Canyon's at all (other than it provides the best scenic view on the course), too narrow!
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2011, 01:17:01 PM »
GB,

Define Stepped down? Dc has the long one down the hill that is like 687. To me the view and setting at both courses are remarkably similar. Sagebrush is 10 times the course DC is....

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2011, 01:19:52 PM »

Garland,

Sagebrush 14 is the par 5 following the short, downhill par 4 13th. 14 has a slightly elevated tee and bends back uphill around the hillside to the smallest green on the course. It is reachable in 2 for the big boys.

The long downhill par 5 is 16 which provides the most entertaining second shot, ie. .downill onto a slope that will hopefully kick the ball forward and onto a massive green of some 22,000 square feet. I think 16 was the hole you recalled.



I like both of them but prefer 14. Love the wide open tee shot, then the risk reward second and the cool greensite between the hills. 16 is fun watching the ball reappear on the second shot. I play that hole well...15 and 17 give me fits.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2011, 01:22:41 PM »
Kyle, Great call on Garden City #4. As you may recall, I spent that hole in Susan Lucci's backyard for a smooth double. 18 at Sebonac was a near miss as top10 par5s as well. Hard to beat the bunkering. Cal Club is also a course with strong par5s. Need to get to Friars Head!

Jack,

I agree, I really like the 4th at Garden City.  The hole shows that a par five can be straightaway and still possess tons of interest.  The waste area on the second shot is a perfect distance from the green.  The sandy hazard forces players to hit a very solid fairway wood or face a very difficult third shot.  However, it is possible for the weaker player to hit a low shot that scoots through the sand.  The green is also the most severe at Garden City.  It's a great hole, and it's often underrated in comparison to the other classic holes on the course.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Keith OHalloran

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Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2011, 12:40:02 AM »
I played Winged Foot West with a few GCA'ers this year. I would nominate the 12th hole, but I think it played more like a par 7 for me.

Philippe Binette

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Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2011, 12:40:52 PM »
The 11th at Blackhawk GC in edmonton (Whitman)
Spectacular tee shot, ideal to play a running shot to reach the green in 2. But the green is set on a peninsula so your approach needs a perfect pace to stay on the green


Patrick Kiser

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Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2011, 01:00:26 PM »
Saw some good par 5's last year from C&C.  I'm starting to feel par 5s are a strong point for them.  I've only played a couple of their courses, yet par 5s standout time and again.

I'll add Clear Creek's 13th and 18th to the mix.  Pretty damn good par 5s.

I'm on the same page with Kyle regarding Friars Head 7th and 14th.  Really liked those two.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2011, 01:03:45 PM by Patrick Kiser »
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2011, 09:49:46 PM »
Noteworthy par 5s I got to see in 2010:

Chicago Golf Club #4 (w/ GCA Brethren) - Great fairway/cross bunkering that complicates both the drive and the layup.  Yet another great green.

Shoreacres #15 - Great use of the creek; lots of fun layup options if you happen to bail out on your drive.


Diamante Cabo San Lucas #14 & #17 - see my picture thread for explanations of these great holes.



Kingsley Club #17 (w/ GCA Brethren) - Can’t get enough of it.  Make the ridge with your drive and you’ve got a decent chance to get home in two.  Yet another fantastic green complex.  Thanks to Tim B for the pic (still growing in the new fairway in this pic).


Erin Hills #7 (w/ GCA Brethren) - Neat “cut the corner” option with the drive.  Nice green benched into the hillside.



Chicago Highlands #7 (w/ GCA Brethren) - Interesting drive with an even more interesting second shot if you’re going for it in two.  Very big and cool green with two distinct sections.

Kiawah Island - Cassique #15 -  Fun drive over a tidal marsh with “bite off as much as you can chew” options.  Possible blind second if you’re out of position on your drive.  Nice green perched out on a peninsula.


Highlands of Elgin #6 (w/ GCA Brethren) - Really interesting par 5 on some undulating terrain.  You climb a hill with the drive, leaving a blind second (and possibly blind third) due to a ridge coming in from the left 50-60 yards short of the green.  Cool two-tiered green.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 11:39:46 AM by George Freeman »
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2011, 03:57:43 AM »
It took some whittling down, but here are the ten which I admire the most from 2010:

Aberdovey #15: Great use of the OOB line and wonderful  long, narrow green. 




Addington #16: I tend to like short par 5s which require shaping a tee shot to great advantage. An added aspect to this hole is because of no obvious layup area one relly wants to take on the drive and set up the go for it second.



Beau Desert #18: A classic risk/reward hole with a potentially very harsh penalty for coming up short on the second....but, sometimes one gets away with it - fantastic.  I believe our man Boony dumped it in the heather and made birdie!




Burnham & Berrow #8: The simplicity of this reachable three-shotter is sublime.



Grosse Ile #17: The go for it approach is quite tight, yet its no bargain to lay-up.  I like these sort of awkward decision holes where neither option is really ideal.


Pennard #4: The wide open fairway with oob lurking on the ideal line is excellent.  I also like the blind fallway green as a measure to control flat bellies.


Pennard #16: Its all about getting the right angle of approach to the green.



Princes Dunes #6: Lovely humpty bumpty fairway with good bunker placement and butt cenching narrowness at te green.



Royal Cinque Ports #3: See JNC's comments




Royal Cinque Ports #16: See JNC's comments.


Ciao




« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 04:18:19 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Special Par 5's Played in 2010 with GCA Brethren
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2011, 10:06:47 AM »
Thanks for the pics Sean.  I too liked the 8th Burnham a lot.  I was especially fond of the shelf green there.  The playing characteristics around the green remind me a little bit of what I saw on TV last week at Kapalua's 15th hole.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

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