[Steve_ Shaffer]

Good article on Fought's career:

http://www.myavidgolfer.com/articles/?view=department&department_id=57&issue_id=196


Quite an impressive portfolio. Raven at Verrado(Fought/Lehman) is nearby my winter resdence so I'll be there soon for a return visit.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Amazing how Raven at Verrado gets so little attention. You have all these classic types who fawn over Papago and then you see something as good as R at V.

Fought also did well with the first course he did (w Lehman in tow) at The Gallery -- just outside of Tucson.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt,

Verrado would be high on the list of winter visitors if it were in Scottsdale. I prefer it over the 2 Troon North courses and the 2 Grayhawk courses plus the rates are lower. As compared to Papago, it's much more dramatic plus it has a very nice clubhouse for a post round beer.

Fought's portfolio is geographically diverse.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

For whatever reason the western rim of Phoenix golf is lost to many. Places like Buckeye and Peoria are frankly not even on the radar screen for many.

I concur with you when R at V is held against the Troon North duo. Ditto to a slightly lesser case with the two at Grayhawk.

No doubt the rates are better at R at V too.

Unfortunately, the Scottsdale dominance is what generally forces more people to see golf there -- and only there -- as the main place to play.

[Jeff Shelman]

Since the parents live at Sun City Grand, I'm quite familiar with West Valley golf.

I like Raven at Verrado quite a bit. I also think Trilogy at Vistancia is quite solid. And Wigwam Gold is almost always a good choice.

What I really like is that I can get golf that is nearly as good or as good as what you find in Scottsdale, but at a much more reasonable pricepoint.

So tell all your friends to stay on the east side.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I had the pleasure of co-designing a never built course near DFW with John.  I didn't know much about him but came to respect him a lot after that experience.  As sort of a self taught guy, he really does understand all the aspects from the dirt up, which I hadn't expected from a former tour player.

I think I have relayed one design discussion we had about bunkering a green.  I didn't want a side bunker, because it would interfer with golfers getting back to the path and he refused to put in a back bunker because it would interfere with walkers going to the back tee.  Both of us said simultaneously, "Well, I never really thought of that" and had a nice laugh, but also a future reference point for design, too.

[Mac Plumart]

I played his Indian Wells Players course just about a year ago.  I thought it was pretty darn good.  It played fast and firm, had ample width, was visually pleasing, and had some very interesting and varied shots.  But I think he ran out of land and the finish (17 and 18) is a bit weird.

Here's a photo of the 7th hole. 

[Tom Yost]

Count me as a fan of the Raven @ Verrado.

A course that has variety and makes good use of the property.  Most of the holes have options for run up/ground game shots. The bunkering is thoughtful.  The course is maintained in a firm and fast manner.  I especially like the terrain features incorporated into holes #2, (cape style green with desert ravine fronting) and #8 (large boulder outcropping defining the turn point, may be carried with a bold tee shot).  The stretch of holes from 12 thru #15 climb to the top of the property and return, and give a good test of a wide range of golf shots.

#13 seems to be love/hate.  I've spoken to many that absolutely dislike the hole.  I think it is pretty interesting.
 
They only knocks are of course, it is a real estate routing and not really designed for walking.  That said, the playing corridors are quite generous and the housing is not intrusive at all.   Some might think that two drop shot par 3's might be one too many. 

I never hesitate to recommend the Raven @ Verrado and it easily finds its way into my top 10 Phoenix.

It is the only Fought design I have played and I would look forward to experiencing some of his other courses.

[Matt_Ward]

One of the really solid closing holes in all of the Valley of the Sun courses is the closer at Raven at Verrado.

Plays 494 yards and invites the bold play - PROVIDED - the execution is rock solid.

Steve and those who have mentioned the course -- absolutely on target -- how the course gets little attention is because too many lazy people only head to Scottsdale.

R at V is well worth the time and effort. Ditto for Trilogy and nearby with Blackstone.

[Matthew Petersen]

One of the really solid closing holes in all of the Valley of the Sun courses is the closer at Raven at Verrado.

Plays 494 yards and invites the bold play - PROVIDED - the execution is rock solid.

Steve and those who have mentioned the course -- absolutely on target -- how the course gets little attention is because too many lazy people only head to Scottsdale.

R at V is well worth the time and effort. Ditto for Trilogy and nearby with Blackstone.

I absolutely agree. I'm mystified (and thankful at the same time) that west valley golf has remained a secret as long as it has. Verrado, trilogy, Estrella Mtn Ranch, and Wigwam can go up against any of the public access courses in north Scottsdale, and at a fraction of the price. (None of them are on the level of WeKoPa, but then that facility is usually much less expensive than the Troon Northss and Grayhwaks).

Verrado is probably my favorite of those west valley courses. The front nine has some nice sleeper holes from 3-7--they don't seem like much out there in the flat portion of the course, but the two par 5s (5 and 7?) especially are great counter-points with width, options, and they play in opposite directions which keeps things interesting if the wind is up. The previously mentioned second and eighth which both make use of a large hill and rock outcropping are both good. And 9 turns out to be a short hole with more options than you'd guess at first.

Then the back nine climbs into the hills and the course gets really good. I love it out there.

[Pete_Pittock]

Steve,
The article doesn't link with me.  I played a number of rounds with John and his family at Tualatin CC while he was still an amateur.
His family took yearly trips to Ireland and he loved and understood the feel of the links. Aspects usually show up in his works. I don't know how John hooked up with Bob Cupp, but John's presence certainly helped Cupp's entry into the Northwest with Crosswater,
Pumpkin Ridge and Tualatin remodel.

[Matt_Ward]

Matthew P:

Frankly, I don't see the all hype on We-Ko-Pa -- you have the C&C groupies here which will fawn over it. R at V is quite good in plenty of areas -- throw in the likes of Vista Verde and you have a few places that provide plenty of fun while not costing one a ton of $$.

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