[Kyle Harris]

The list:

Brigantine Golf Course
Cobbs Creek Olde
Galen Hall
Inniscrone
Jeffersonville
Middletown
McCullough's Emerald Links
Paxon Hollow
Reading Country Club
The Club at Morgan Hill

This list is not in order yet and the only criteria I'll reveal so far in the interest of open discussion is that I must have played the course and that the peak green fee is under $100. There is one other limiting factor that is taking a few of the more popular courses in the area out of the equation. My rankings reflect an opportunity cost rating, meaning these courses typically win out over their neighbors when traveling from Philadelphia. (ie Why play Ravens Claw when one can drive a little further and pay a little less for a better golf course at Reading Country Club?)

[Rory Connaughton]

Kyle

  Have you played

   Hershey Links
   Pilgrim's Oak or
   Iron valley?

[Mark McKeever]

A very solid list Kyle.    

One more that comes to mind for me is Downingtown CC.

Mark

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle

  Have you played

   Hershey Links
   Pilgrim's Oak or
   Iron valley?

Pilgrims Oak and Iron Valley.

Played Pilgrims Oak for the second time this passed Monday. It's decent, but has a few too many awkward stretches on the second nine.

Iron Valley is on the cusp of this list. I've played it once and I'm keen to get back, however, at this time it doesn't seem like it would push me to drive further out from Galen Hall to play.

[Kyle Harris]

Mark:

Downingtown may be a candidate to the final list. I have to do some research as there was a time when the price was much higher and they did not meet my last, as of yet unnamed, criteria.

[Garland Bayley]

I was under the impression that Lederach was within 100 miles of Philly. If so, Sean Arble is going to take you to task over leaving it out.
 

[Kyle Harris]

I was under the impression that Lederach was within 100 miles of Philly. If so, Sean Arble is going to take you to task over leaving it out.
 

Nope. Does not meet my criteria. Big clue as it's the unlisted one and a big thorn in my side.

Otherwise, it would be well within this list.

Architects in Phillipsburg would be on the list as well (over Morgan Hill) if the peak green fee were under $100.

[Mike Cirba]

Kyle,

Love your list, with the exception of the missing Lederach which you(we) need to get to.   It would bump Middletown for me.

LOVE the unexpected inclusion of Brigantine! 

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

Love your list, with the exception of the missing Lederach which you(we) need to get to.   It would bump Middletown for me.

LOVE the unexpected inclusion of Brigantine! 

Might as well let the cat out of the bag.

Lederach's cart policy disqualifies it.

I've played it several times, but as you know I like to walk and I don't like paying for a golf cart I do not wish to use. There is simply no option to play Lederach without paying for the golf cart.

[Mark McKeever]

Don't pretty much all of these places have the same rate whether you walk or ride on a weekend?

Mark

[Dan Boerger]

Glen Mills would be on my list. Fully agree on Paxon Hollow ... always a treat to play there.

[John Shimony]

I rather like the inclusion of Middletown.  While at the very least holes like 17 and 18 are definitely weak it has a fair share of very good holes like 2, 4, 7, 12, 13, 15.  I did not include 16 because the green is minuscule and the 17th tee is a death trap. Probably had some land taken from them down in that corner in the past.

I've never played:
Galen Hall
Jeffersonville (no excuse)
Paxon Hollow
Reading Country Club
The Club at Morgan Hill

[Mark McKeever]

John,

If you (or anyone else) need a playing partner at Morgan Hill which is up my way, let me know.  Could even double up and play Schuylkill CC after!

Mark

[Sean_A]

Kyle

It is a pity that Lederach doesn't offer a walking rate, but I wouldn't walk the course as I know I would become frustrated with the added distance.  This issue is one of the biggest drawbacks of newish publics and I dare say newish privates. 

What is the wild n' wonderful course Mayday talks about?  I can't recall the name, but it looks to be pretty quirky.

Ciao

[John Shimony]

Would love to, Mark.  

Bringantine never did much for me for whatever reason, nothing to do with the viscous flies either. Inniscrone is a beast.  The narrow holes cut out of the trees are the only holes I don't like.  Love Emerald.  The greens at Lederach really do a number on your card but they are fun to play.  I love your criteria, Kyle.  Carts and cart fees are an abomination.

[mike_malone]

 Sean,

   It is probably Paxon Hollow.

    Kyle,

     Have you played Springfield? Back Creek? Odessa?

[Garland Bayley]

Most excellent Sir Kyle! I will cross Lederach off my wish list.

Kyle,

Love your list, with the exception of the missing Lederach which you(we) need to get to.   It would bump Middletown for me.

LOVE the unexpected inclusion of Brigantine! 

Might as well let the cat out of the bag.

Lederach's cart policy disqualifies it.

I've played it several times, but as you know I like to walk and I don't like paying for a golf cart I do not wish to use. There is simply no option to play Lederach without paying for the golf cart.

[Kyle Harris]

All these places have cart fees and even times where one may not walk

HOWEVER

There is no such time at Lederach, and there is no rate which does not include a golf cart. You simply do not have a choice if you wish to play there.

Garland,

Don't cross it off. In fact, play there and be obstinate about the fact you can't walk. Demand dictates policy in these instances.

[Kyle Harris]

I rather like the inclusion of Middletown.  While at the very least holes like 17 and 18 are definitely weak it has a fair share of very good holes like 2, 4, 7, 12, 13, 15.  I did not include 16 because the green is minuscule and the 17th tee is a death trap. Probably had some land taken from them down in that corner in the past.

Negative, that portion of the property is as it was.

I quite like the 17th hole - it's a crazy green and a tough 4 even though it's only 260 yards.

How is 18 weak? I think it's one of the stronger holes on the property! What a great tee shot.

[John Shimony]

My beef with Middletown 18 is that there really isn't much going on.  Up hill, ditch on the left.  Not saying I par it every time, definitely not.  I just find 17 and 18 to be boring.

I do like the little mounds in 17 fairway.

[Kyle Harris]

My beef with Middletown 18 is that there really isn't much going on.  Up hill, ditch on the left.  Not saying I par it every time, definitely not.  I just find 17 and 18 to be boring.

I do like the little mounds in 17 fairway.

Never lay up on 17, myself. Trying to attack that green is far too interesting. The left side of that hole needs to be opened up as well.

A shot must be correctly shaped off the 18 tee and must flirt with the OB tree line to get a turbo boost and near reach the green, else it will be condemned to the fate of the ditch left from which a recovery is awkward. I like it.

I'm saddened that you haven't mentioned the middle stretch from 8-11. I've found, more often or not that how one scores there makes or breaks the round and the half-par holes are more than appealing especially with the 12-16 stretch that follows. The course has VERY good flow in this regard.

[Kyle Harris]

Why did you leave Berkleigh off the list?

The short of it is that I could only name 10 and Berkleigh is on the cusp.

It would have to go toe to toe with Reading and Galen Hall based on the criteria of opportunity cost. I tend to think that if I were to have to divide 10 rounds between the 3, Berkleigh would be on the short end of that list. Berkleigh has handful of Par 3s and Par 5s that I am very keen on but the stretch of holes around the clubhouse along the entrance knock it below the other two.

One of the keys to this list is that it's centered in Philadelphia - so the time required to get to each place is factored in the cost. How often is Berkleigh going to draw me to drive a little further in lieu of Reading?

I'd imagine the attitude could change if I made the central location Reading or Allentown - in fact, I think it would measurably because of places like Olde Homestead and even Jack Frost National.

[John Shimony]

Kyle,
Middletown 8 is a stout par 3, I like it.  9 is a nice short hole, never know where I want to drive the ball, up into the neck, up and to the left, lay back... good hole.  10 has my number.  I may have never pared that hole.  I should play it like a par four.  I love 11.  Great short hole.  12 tee is another death trap.  You need to let the group on that tee play if anyone in your group is going for 12 green.  

Favorite hole on the course is 15.  Just like the way it flows.  Dogleg left, pretty long, very graceful but difficult. Perhaps could us a bunker on the inside for those trying to cut the corner from the back tee, but not necessary.

[Jay Flemma]

Kyle, unless the policy has changed...and I just checked with KBM on this...the rate is at times as low as $40 and never goes above 75-80 and you are NOT required to take a cart.  Might the position you espoused earlier be a little misleading?  In a way, if the rate is $40 and the cart is included, some might argue the cart "feels free."

Again, I just talked to KBM and maybe he might chime in too, but if that's true, failure to include Lederach on the list is an omission you might want to look at again...still, good work, good list, and great job in all your work efforts as an architect/poster.

[Kyle Harris]

Why did you leave Berkleigh off the list?

The short of it is that I could only name 10 and Berkleigh is on the cusp.

It would have to go toe to toe with Reading and Galen Hall based on the criteria of opportunity cost. I tend to think that if I were to have to divide 10 rounds between the 3, Berkleigh would be on the short end of that list. Berkleigh has handful of Par 3s and Par 5s that I am very keen on but the stretch of holes around the clubhouse along the entrance knock it below the other two.

Along the road at Berkleigh are holes 14 which I think is outstanding, hole 15 is good, 16 requires some thinking on the tee shot, but the approach is a difficult wedge shot, 17 is another wedge shot, but an interesting putting surface and the same for 18. I think it is far better a course than Galen Hall. Galen has some real dog holes and the island green is ridiculous.

I walk when I play Lederach, am I getting special treatment or did they change policies.

I've walked there too, but I'm paying the same rate for those who ride.

I'm not terribly fond of that policy and I don't think they're giving the carts away for free. I can understand having times where carts are required where the cart is charged separately (meaning, that if it's not a crowded day they won't make someone take the cart and bump the rate down accordingly). Lederach simply does not have this rate structure. It's not like I can walk up on a particularly hot or non-peak day and play for $10-20 less than the rate WITH the golf cart.

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