Praire Dunes and the pricing of national memberships

[Jeff Dawson]

Had a discussion today about national memberships and found it interesting that the new plan being rolled out by Praire Dunes calls for a pricing of their national membership to be higher than their local membership, they are also increasing the number of national memberships allowed.  My take is that most clubs are looking at national memberships as it is becoming difficult locally to replace or grow the membership.  Has anyone heard of any other club that costs more as a national member?

[Terry Lavin]

I haven't, but in the case of Prairie Dunes, I can easily see that they may have run out of people from Wichita so they're making a concerted push to get members elsewhere. 

[Sean Leary]

Jeff,

That plan has not been approved yet. That being said, PD is a little different based on the fact that the local membership is so inexpensive. Which it has to be based on the local population. It is mainly a local club with additional national members.

[John Kavanaugh]

Every club in Britain.  Hutchison reminds me of my home town.

[Scott Szabo]

Sean,

Can you provide any specifics regarding the national membership?  I have relatives that live in Mulvane, Kansas - about an hour from Prairie Dunes.  We've been getting out their way a time or two each year and I've often wondered about getting out to Prairie Dunes.

Please send a PM if it needs to be of a more private nature.

Scott

[Jeff Dawson]

My question is really are their more examples of national memberships costing more than local and what are the reasons behind it?  The discussion about Prairie Dunes looking at this model just made me curious.  I am familiar with a large number of national plans, just none that cost more than local.  Its an interesting take and could be very positive in the long run in attracting local members. 

[Matt Bosela]

This is a fascinating development and I'm trying to wrap my head around it without success.

Excuse my ignorance if it's been mentioned but is the "higher price" of the membership related solely to the initiation fee or does it relate to the yearly dues and monthly minimums?

[Jud_T]

Seems a bit silly.  At some point one simply buys investment property in town and spends the requisite 30 days playing one of the best courses around...

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/129-Hyde-Park-Drive_Hutchinson_KS_67502_M76299-09991

[Brent Hutto]

It seems to me they are simply casting about for more wealthy high-$$$ members and realize that to find enough of them they'd better search out of town instead of locally. Looking where the light is brightest, so to speak.

[Sean Leary]

Matt,

Initiation fee. Up to now the local initiation was just a hair higher than the national.

[C. Squier]

Seems a bit silly.  At some point one simply buys investment property in town and spends the requisite 30 days playing one of the best courses around...

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/129-Hyde-Park-Drive_Hutchinson_KS_67502_M76299-09991

Annual dues for a regular are more expensive than for a National member.

Even at the new price, PD National membership is the best thing going.....every time I visit I thank God it's not on Long Island or the Monterey Peninsula. 

[PCCraig]

It's looking like I'll be making my first trip out there later this spring and I can't wait.

Without even ever being there I can honestly say that PD is the only non-RE national club I would seriously consider joining. All power to them for raising the prices to meet the national membership demand.

[John Kavanaugh]

It's looking like I'll be making my first trip out there later this spring and I can't wait.

Without even ever being there I can honestly say that PD is the only non-RE national club I would seriously consider joining. All power to them for raising the prices to meet the national membership demand.

That is sad. The only one, huh?

[Matt Waterbury]

PD actually has a waiting list for National memberships. So raising price is simply a supply/demand thing. Makes sense, should you find yourself in such a rare but fortunate situation.

[Bill_McBride]

Will Prairie Dunes let national members bring a large number of guests like Ballyneal and Kingsley?  To me that's one of the very best things about those great clubs.

[Terry Lavin]

The last time I was there, my friend had three foursomes, which seemed to be about the limit for the heart of the season.  It's a pretty busy golf course, with an avid local membership and a pretty solid national group as well.  It has always been humming with activity when I've played.  I haven't made it to Ballyneal, but I would venture to say they don't get nearly as many rounds as PD, which has been in operation for more than 70 years.

[Sean Leary]

The last time I was there, my friend had three foursomes, which seemed to be about the limit for the heart of the season.  It's a pretty busy golf course, with an avid local membership and a pretty solid national group as well.  It has always been humming with activity when I've played.  I haven't made it to Ballyneal, but I would venture to say they don't get nearly as many rounds as PD, which has been in operation for more than 70 years.

Terry nailed it. Also, the non escorted rate is significantly higher so it isn't super conducive to bring more than one group unless you have more than one member.

[brad_miller]

One member bring 3 guests is VERY cost effective, 2 or 3 members could each bring 3 more each under same cost. One member can bring 7 who would want more but cost for back 4 is over $200 per round, probably another 100 for 2nd 18

[Jason Hines]

Sean, Matt,

Do you know the "National" membership criteria?  PM is fine if you don't want to answer, I am down the road.  (3 hours)

J.

[Morgan Clawson]

I'm certainly no expert in this area, but it seems like there are very few clubs that are 1) highly ranked/acclaimed and 2) located in small population areas where a price structure you described would be possible.

Let's look at the top 40 courses in the country per Golf Digest and put them into possible groups. Caveat:  My assumptions aren't going to be correct for every coure, but this exercise is just to see where courses might fall. Feel free to revise as necessary.

Per my analysis, only 3 of the 40 might have the right characteristics:

a) small population area - local members with National members paying a higher cost:  Crystal Downs, Prairie Dunes, Southern Hills

b) remote population area - mostly national members:  Sand Hills

c) vacation/2nd home area:  Seminole, Club at Black Rock, Fisher's Island, Wade Hampton

d) very exclusive:  Augusta National, Cypress

e) resort or public:  Pebble, Pacific Dunes, Whistling Straights, Kiawah Ocean Course, Bethpage Black, Pinehurst #2, Bandon Dunes
 
f) large population area: Pine Valley, Shinnecock, Oakmont, Merion, Winged Foot, Oak Hill, Cicago, National Golf Links, The Country Club, Muifield Village, Medina #3, Oakland Hills, Olympic, Catle Pines, Baltusrol Lower, Victoria National, Riviera, The Golf Club, San Francisco, Butler, Honors, Sebonack, Inverness

[PCCraig]

It's looking like I'll be making my first trip out there later this spring and I can't wait.

Without even ever being there I can honestly say that PD is the only non-RE national club I would seriously consider joining. All power to them for raising the prices to meet the national membership demand.

That is sad. The only one, huh?

That means something coming from you.

The only one.

[Lou_Duran]

I don't know what Prairie Dunes' current deal is, but if Crystal Downs had a national program approaching it, my check would be in the mail.  Unfortunately, at least as of two or three years ago, CD did not have a national program and about the only way I could have been accepted as a member was if I bought property in the neighborhood and waited for my turn on a 10+ year waiting list.

[Jud_T]

Lou,

I believe if you buy property in the community you jump to the head of the wait list...

Pat,

I can think of at least 1 interesting national membership club you haven't even seen!   

[Sean Leary]

I don't know what Prairie Dunes' current deal is, but if Crystal Downs had a national program approaching it, my check would be in the mail.  Unfortunately, at least as of two or three years ago, CD did not have a national program and about the only way I could have been accepted as a member was if I bought property in the neighborhood and waited for my turn on a 10+ year waiting list.

I don't think you can compare Traverse City and Hutchinson though...

[JC Jones]

I don't know what Prairie Dunes' current deal is, but if Crystal Downs had a national program approaching it, my check would be in the mail.  Unfortunately, at least as of two or three years ago, CD did not have a national program and about the only way I could have been accepted as a member was if I bought property in the neighborhood and waited for my turn on a 10+ year waiting list.

I don't think you can compare Traverse City and Hutchinson though...

I think you've got that in reverse.  I don't think you can compare Hutchinson to Traverse City.

Lou,

Last summer, I was told the list was much shorter than that.