What does a Course Rater want to see/do on a visit?

[Chris Wirthwein]

I've recently been asked to serve as a "host" for Course Raters who visit and play our course (Crooked Stick). I am also the club historian and have written the club's history book (www.crookedstickbook.com).

For raters who visit and want a member to play with them, I'll accompany. If they want to play on their own, I'll make sure they know the lay of the facilities and then get out of their way. We've also considered emailing the rater some background/club history information prior to their visit and of course we would be happy to have a meal/beverage with them before or after their round if they so choose.

All that aside, does anyone have advice for how we can make the visit valuable, instructive and enjoyable for a Course Rater?

I'm new to this, so any help you can provide would be most appreciated...

[Joel_Stewart]

This is a good question but not one that can be answered easily.

All panelists are different.  I've hosted a lot of panelists and some want to know the history.  In your case their history is what John Daly did and not why Pete Dye did something.  Others are just looking for a free round.  Others want to play it all the way back and try for a score.  My guess would be 20% are interested in the architecture.

I had one idiot that wanted to gamble and then he wanted me to club him on every shot.  Another that was pissed we took caddies and basically shuffeled his feet the entire way and never looked up.  I pointed certain features out to him and he had no idea what I was talking about.

My suggestion is to set the tone, make him/her walk, do not allow them to bring a guest, show their creditianals, and play from the middle tees.

[Ben Sims]

--my opinion--

You're either there as a rater or you're not.  This doesn't mean that if you're hosted and are there as a guest that you can't rate the course later.  On the contrary.  If I'm a guest, I'll act as a guest and loiter with the member, eat in the grill, maybe have a shower, etc.  If I'm there as a rater (still a guest, but of the club) I'll get on the course quickly, play quickly, have maybe a quick drink, buy some shwag from the pro shop, and get out of Dodge.

I use this technique because if I am visiting on the pretense of rating the golf course, I should be as invisible as possible to the entire goings on at the course on that day.  I'll enjoy myself sure.  But there is no reason to make any sort of big deal of it.  However, if I am a guest of a friend or a kind member, I'll try to experience the club as well as the course and make an experience of it.  

PS.  There was a club in New Jersey that put together a small two page letter about the history of the course and recent renovations to the holes.  I thought it provided a good read after the round and helped me reflect on the course.  

[Matt_Ward]

Chris:

Your desire to be of assistance is a great thing to do.

I believe raters gain plenty by having such a mtg with key club people -- especially those who understand its history and what elements have been happening -- especially those in the recent past. I have even made the point in connecting with the course superintendent when possible -- getting their take on what they are doing and what they plan on doing is helpful too.

Joel is right -- all raters are different. Some want total invisibility because they don't want to hear the "spin" or be "lobbied" - even in the nicest way possible. I would hope that the raters Joel highlighted as being less than responsive were more the exception than the rule.

The key focus clearly is the architecture -- the Daly win is important to note but the Dye involvement with Crooked Stick -- over these many years -- is an item any rater needs to concentrate upon.

I don't agree w Joel on having them play middle tees -- if they have the game and desire to play from other markers so be it. So long as they have the game and can maintain the proper pace that's fine.

Chris, I always have believed that interaction is a good thing -- no rater can know as much as the people who play there everyday. Getting feedback from someone as learned as you are as club historian really helps the learning curve. On the flip side -- you can then provide feedback to the club hierarchy on any comments that the rater(s) provided.

[Andy Troeger]

Chris,
I think you've got the right idea--as the others have commented you'll see a lot of variety in the preferences of panelists. Be firm with club policies but more lenient with the smaller details (tees played, walk or ride). Personally I find that its beneficial to play with a club representative because you can share things that wouldn't always be evident on a one-time visit. You'll get a feel for whether the individual panelist wants you to share a lot of details or just be available to answer questions, etc.  You obviously know the history of the place and will have some fun stories to share--many panelists might be interested to know where John Daly drove the ball on #14 during the PGA...I know I couldn't play the hole that way!

Two things I would absolutely suggest: check the credentials for each panelist and if any act inappropriately report them to the rankings editor for the magazine.

[John Kavanaugh]

Do not report bad raters to the editors.  I have seen this many times and all it does is hurt your club. The only raters ever punished are those ratted out by other raters.

[Andy Troeger]

Chris,
I'm not aware of situations where reporting poor behavior has hurt the club at least as it related to Golf Digest raters, but given John's comment you're also welcome to contact me via PM if you want to discuss further. Hopefully it won't be an issue!

[John Kavanaugh]

Andy,

Don't you think Chris is doing enough without also asking him to be a rater snitch?  Are you now part of the Digest rater team? 

[Andy Troeger]

John,
I'm a state captain, but am happy to answer Chris' questions privately or refer him to those that can.

[jim_lewis]

I always make it a point to assure the pro that I will be happy to play with anyone he wishes, but I actually prefer to play alone. I find that I can concentrate exclusively on studying the course if I am not distracted by a playing partner. If do play with someone, I prefer to play with one of the pros or a very strong player. I like for him to play from his tees and I play from mine so that I can see the course from the perspective of players of different skills. I like to arrive early and play before members are on the course so that I can take my time and not risk disturbing members. After I play, I prefer to thank the pro (and any hosts) and hit the road. I don't like to be quizzed by those wanting to know how I rate the course. I usually deflect those questions by saying something positive, but non-committal, about the course and explaining that I will not complete my rating until I have a chance to review my notes. I am not an architect and don't try to play one by suggesting changes to the course. If pressed, I have been known to recommend removal of trees. If the super tells me of a change he wants to make, and if I agree, I will invite him to quote me to the members, if he thinks that will help his case.

I have had the pleasure of playing with some delightful members and staff at many courses. However, as agreeable as it was, I don't think I did my best job of rating the course in those cases. I never join in a match, because I don't want to be concerned about how I play.

Sure, I enjoy a tour of an historic club house, but in most cases I don't get past the pro shop and the locker room. I am there to see the course, period.

[John Kavanaugh]

Raters also like to play alone so they can move on. Crooked Stick should be no longer than a three hour detour on a trip to a more interesting destination.  

I have always felt that Crooked Stick was hurt by the fact that a hillbilly slob (John Daly) won a major in a state peceived to be hillbilly.  Architectural "experts" will also discount Daly's win as something lacking for the thinking player.

In addition you have the party line of how Pete Dye has tinkered too much with the course.  Having a historian along trying to justify these changes will fall on deaf ears.  The only hope Chris has is that the rater played Canyata in the morning and has time for dinner at St Elmo's before doing the Victoria/Valhalla circuit the next day.

It's still worth all the great friends he will meet along the way.  This thread alone should fill his dance card, or do "we" still need to contact the club first.  He does host bloggers too I hope.  

Damn, I forgot about Wolf Run.  If you insist on playing there please save your energy and ride or play Crooked Stick first. 

[C. Squier]

John, your omniscience always amazes me. It's such a coincidence that rater panels are made up of the world's cheapest and least appreciative people. Seriously, what are the odds??? 

[John Kavanaugh]

Clint,

I only act this way so raters pick up the check to prove me wrong.

[JR Potts]

The only hope Chris has is that the rater played Canyata in the morning and has time for dinner at St Elmo's before doing the Victoria/Valhalla circuit the next day.
 

Who the hell can even get on Canyata?  I know a lot of people in this state and I don't know one non-rater who has even played it.

[C. Squier]

John, but what you refuse to acknowledge is that a rater doesn't reach the first tee without satisfying the requirements of the host club. If they must pay, the plastic hits the counter. If it's comped, that's the free will decision of the club.  Understanding that a club will make a decision based on what they believe is best for them, does it really bother you that some play your course(s) for free?

[John Kavanaugh]

The only hope Chris has is that the rater played Canyata in the morning and has time for dinner at St Elmo's before doing the Victoria/Valhalla circuit the next day.
 

Who the hell can even get on Canyata?  I know a lot of people in this state and I don't know one non-rater who has even played it.

You know me.  I live in Illinois and played Canyata two years ago.  Left my pants in the back of a raters van.  But it was free after all.

[Mac Plumart]

Left my pants in the back of a raters van


Things that make you go hmmm...

[John Kavanaugh]

John, but what you refuse to acknowledge is that a rater doesn't reach the first tee without satisfying the requirements of the host club. If they must pay, the plastic hits the counter. If it's comped, that's the free will decision of the club.  Understanding that a club will make a decision based on what they believe is best for them, does it really bother you that some play your course(s) for free?

I have had no less than ten owners/club managers tell me that they would love to charge raters but feel that they can't.  It would be like charging a cop for a doughnut.  Your offer to pay is false bravado.

What bothers me is that the panels are expanding when golf is failing.  

[Adam Clayman]

Marching orders to the archie along with any design and/or environmental constraints are helpful.

[Chris Wirthwein]

Thanks to all who replied - Joel, Ben, Matt, Andy, John, Jim, Clint, Ryan, Mac and Adam.

The insight is very helpful - sort of like a focus group but a lot easier to stage!

We are trying to do things "right" -- and by that, we mean we want raters to get a representative view of the golf course and also want to provide assistance or information if desired. Naturally, we (or maybe it's just me) like to share the history of the course and the club.

The advice I'm getting seems to indicate to offer assistance, information, a playing partner and the ability to walk/use a caddie (easy enough; we have lots of walkers and an active caddie program) and let the rater tell you how he/she would like to handle things. Sounds pretty simple.

Thanks again to alll who weighed in. Perhaps I'll see some of you along the way...

[Andy Troeger]

Adam,
I'd be interested in more on how you use that info in your rating of a course (offline if you prefer)--I'm interested in that kind of information for my own knowledge and because I find it interesting, but it wouldn't have much effect on a numerical evaluation for me.

[John Kavanaugh]

Chris,

If you want a high ranking let them meet Alice Dye.  I would keep Pete away, he is a bit too honest for his own good when it comes to this sort of thing.  Next time you are coming down to Victoria let me know as I would love to compare notes.

[Chris Wirthwein]

John -- Alice is great; she was very helpful to me in the research and writing of the Crooked Stick history book. She has a great grasp of the the details. Pete was great, too -- lots of terrific stories. And yes, he is quite candid.

If I get down Victoria way, I'll let you know...

[Mike_Young]

John, but what you refuse to acknowledge is that a rater doesn't reach the first tee without satisfying the requirements of the host club. If they must pay, the plastic hits the counter. If it's comped, that's the free will decision of the club.  Understanding that a club will make a decision based on what they believe is best for them, does it really bother you that some play your course(s) for free?

I have had no less than ten owners/club managers tell me that they would love to charge raters but feel that they can't.  It would be like charging a cop for a doughnut.  Your offer to pay is false bravado.

What bothers me is that the panels are expanding when golf is failing.  

JOHN,
I know several places that charge raters....
One of my owners had me clearing raters for him because he knew nothing about golf and just sent them to me....if one called me and had a demanding attitude then when he showed up there was a charge....if a guy showed up with humility and was not acting as though we should bowing to him....he would be comped....but I do think there are a few places that charge....and I see nothing wrong with it....

[Bob_Huntley]

"What does a Course Rater want to see/do on a visit?'


Play a wonderful course for nothing.


Bob