Jack is now catching up with Tiger

[archie_struthers]

 

I was kind of surprised to see that Jack has almost caught Tiger in Major wins / age   .  Tiger needs to win one next year to stay on pace .  Interesting enough , my young golf pro friends now agree that he won't catch Nicklaus .  Isn't that a little surprising to most  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Yes and no, many are short sighted. Let the man heal up from his divorce and lets see where he is in another year from now.

[PThomas]

actually , he's still a year up on Jack...he just turned 35 and has won 14 pro majors

when Jack turned 35 he had won 12 pro majors...he won 2 that year and then 4 others

[Jason Topp]

I see his chances at about 50/50.  5 majors is a great career for most and not many have won majors for longer than a 14 year time frame.    

Golf wise - I think his ability to pass Jack will depend on his ability to regain his short game.  He used to be fantastic around the greens but he hits a lot of terrible chips and pitches now - particularly from tight lies.  He used to be among the best scramblers in the game but his statistics have been mediocre the last couple of years - perhaps because of all the time off.  My guess is that the other parts of his game will be good enough to do it.  

[Dan Boerger]

A couple years ago I would have said Jack's major professional record is toast. Not so sure anymore. Tiger's a mental midget with things pertaining to his personal life (at least in so far as marriage is concerned). I think this will be a telling year ... Not that he has to win one this year to keep the record in his gunsights, but if he can't be high in the mix come 4 Sunday afternoons in 2011 I'd bet against him ever getting to 19.

[archie_struthers]

 

Tiger's personal life is his business , just as was Doug Sanders , Tony Lema et al .   However the age 35 seems to have some real importance as far as putting is concerned , the key to winning any golf tournaments , particularly majors. In that Tiger's putting was so integral to his winning given his ball striking comes and goes, his job seems far more difficult than Jack's to keep winning.

Given that Jack still could hit it  past almost all  his competitors at 35 (other than Weiskopf)  , the mental edge that comes with great length remained for Nicklaus. Tiger does not have that edge anymore.  It will be really hard for him to catch Jack and I don't think the divorce is the big problem, it's a factor sure, but not the nexus.

[Matt_Ward]

Archie:

Divorce of the type Tiger went through would detour just about any human.

Tiger B is right -- wait and see before everyone who's against Tiger has to wipe egg off their faces.

[Brent Hutto]

I think 3-4 years ago you'd have been a fool to bet against Tiger ending up with several more majors than Jack.

I think nowadays you might at least inquire as to how favorable the odds for a such a wager might be...

[Tony Weiler]

I was kind of surprised to see that Jack has almost caught Tiger in Major wins / age   .  Tiger needs to win one next year to stay on pace .  Interesting enough , my young golf pro friends now agree that he won't catch Nicklaus .  Isn't that a little surprising to most  

To answer your question, Archie, yes, that is surprising. 

[Phil Benedict]

Tiger still has loads of ability and drive, plus something to shoot for, which is a big advantage over Jack who didn't have a target once he passed Jones.

Brandell Chamblie had an interesting take on Tiger's new swing in Golf Digest.  He said the swing isn't suited to winning majors because he's trapping the ball, which lowers his ball flight.  According the Brandell, a high ball flight is what it takes to win majors in bunches.  

[JLahrman]

As was mentioned, five majors is an incredible career accomplishment - Mickelson will get into the Hall of Fame with four.  To do that much after age 35 would be extremely difficult, although Tiger specializes in difficult accomplishments.

While Tiger also keeps himself in good shape, he also has been out grinding away on Tour for 15 years now.  He's had multiple knee surgeries.  It's debatable whether his body is effectively older or younger than 35.

[Jerry Kluger]

I believe that this year has cost Tiger a great deal because the intimidation factor is not what it used to be.  The guys feel more comfortable playing with him and standing up to him.  There are some really solid young players and the Europeans are outstanding. Look at Lee Westwood - he played with Tiger in the final round at Torrey and shot the same score - look where they are now - if they played together today I would have to give the edge to Westwood.  The bet is no longer Tiger versus the field.

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

Compare Tiger with what he played at Firestone and then at Sherwood. The eye of the Tiger is returning --

[Jon Wiggett]

Tiger has certainly had a poor year this year by his standards. I think next year will be more critical tough. He has certainly lost some of his awe factor for the other players on the tour but that said if he plays as well as we know he can then it is hard to see anybody being able to stay with him.

Can he win 5 more majors? Well on past form I would think that it is probably a sure bet inside the next 5 years. That being said who would have thought that Watson's 1983 Open would heve been his last major back in 1983?

Only time will tell!

Jon

[Jud_T]

Perhaps guys won't fold like a house of cards around him anymore.  So that means instead of winning 1 out of every 3 tournaments he tees it up in, maybe he wins 1 out of every 4 or 5.  If he stays healthy and gets his private affairs in order, Jack's record is the only thing that's toast...

[Sean_A]

I think 3-4 years ago you'd have been a fool to bet against Tiger ending up with several more majors than Jack.

I think nowadays you might at least inquire as to how favorable the odds for a such a wager might be...

I think folks were way too eager to annoint the next coming of Jesus in the guise of a Tiger.  I bet against Tiger breaking the record of 20 MAJORS.  Tiger has 17 MAJORS.  He still needs four.  I will have to find that bet slip which is stashed in a book somewhere - assuming I wasn't a fool for placing the bet and they actually gave me decent odds.  I seem to recall placing the bet about 8 or 9 years ago - just a tenner.  There was no way I ever (and still don't) believed that Tiger was gonna smash Jack's record.  It was always gonna be a close run affair if one kept a level head about the comparison and realized jack stayed healthy phyically and mentally his entire career.  The way Tiger swung the bat it was clear his physical health was in jeapordy and that was just listening to guys like Fuzzzy talk about it.  

Ciao  

[Matt_Ward]

Sean:

When did US Ams count for anything ?

Under that reasoning John Ball needs to be counted for his record in the British AM from before the time the spoon and fork were created ?

By the way if one were to insert majors -- then Hagen deserves credit for the Western Open before The Masters replaced it.

[George Pazin]

The "eye of the Tiger" reads 8 inches of break on putts that break 3 and vice-versa....

He's toast.  If it wasn't obvious enough already, Graeme MacDowell dropping two 20 foot bombs on him on the 18th at Sherwood sealed the deal:  the Tiger magic where everybody around him melts like the Wicked Witch of the West every fricking time he's in contention is history.  Nobody's scared of this guy anymore and half the guys on tour know they can take him. 

I'm saving this post for future evaluation!

Tiger is on the fence, could go either way - either become merely another top pro, or go back to being the old Tiger (or at least some reasonable facsimile thereof).

My money's on the latter, Shiv's is obviously on the former.

What be the stakes of the wager, my good man? Keep in mind, I'm not just the poorest golfer on the site, I might be the poorest guy as well.

[Jud_T]

In addition, the guy's now got something to prove and we know how he's always responded when anyone questioned his ability.  Once these swing changes are fully ingrained and he gets back to his normal sick amount of short game practice (uh, hello, he's got a 3 hole short game area IN HIS NEW BACK YARD), I fully expect him to go on a tear and real off 2 or 3 majors.  If not 2011 then 2012....

[PThomas]

Sean:

When did US Ams count for anything ?

Under that reasoning John Ball needs to be counted for his record in the British AM from before the time the spoon and fork were created ?

By the way if one were to insert majors -- then Hagen deserves credit for the Western Open before The Masters replaced it.

Matt - the AMs counted in one's majors totals for a LONG time...for ex, I still have a poster of Jack that came out after the 1986 Masters that had a big sketch of him with 20 little ones around the border from his various major wins

[Dan Boerger]

How soon some forget ... I recall when Tiger won at Augusta all those years ago there was a chorus of "experts" that claimed he never had the game for any high-rough US Open set up. Then, of course, he won multiple US Opens. Then, so many of these same experts claimed he just wouldn't win an Open. After all, he's an air-attack guy, can't play any sort of bump and run, etc. Then, he won multiple British Opens. He leaves Butch Harmon and he won't win another major, he gets married he won't win, he has a family he won't win ... I think we'll be adding he's single again to that same list.

[Sean_A]

Sean:

When did US Ams count for anything ?

Under that reasoning John Ball needs to be counted for his record in the British AM from before the time the spoon and fork were created ?

By the way if one were to insert majors -- then Hagen deserves credit for the Western Open before The Masters replaced it.

Matt

I wish we were only talking pro majors as my bet would be on sounder ground.  However, if we are going to make any attempt (and foolish it is) at comparing players across generations then we MUST count the US and British Ams.  Otherwise, we dismiss the great accomplishments of Bobby Jones and the often forgotten awesome career of Harold Hilton - the second greatest amateur. 

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

I think 3-4 years ago you'd have been a fool to bet against Tiger ending up with several more majors than Jack.

I think nowadays you might at least inquire as to how favorable the odds for a such a wager might be...

I think folks were way too eager to annoint the next coming of Jesus in the guise of a Tiger.  I bet against Tiger breaking the record of 20 MAJORS.  Tiger has 17 MAJORS.  He still needs four.  I will have to find that bet slip which is stashed in a book somewhere - assuming I wasn't a fool for placing the bet and they actually gave me decent odds.  I seem to recall placing the bet about 8 or 9 years ago - just a tenner.  There was no way I ever (and still don't) believed that Tiger was gonna smash Jack's record.  It was always gonna be a close run affair if one kept a level head about the comparison and realized jack stayed healthy phyically and mentally his entire career.  The way Tiger swung the bat it was clear his physical health was in jeapordy and that was just listening to guys like Fuzzzy talk about it.  

Ciao  

You took your advice on Tiger from Fuzzy?
I'ds say Tiger's got at least 20 years still to break that bet.
One bad year does not end it all.
Barndel Chamblee is also giving Tiger advice?(although he may well be an expert on not winning majors)
You think Tiger will forget how to hit high just because he's trapping it more now?

[Sean_A]

Jeff

A lot of folks have been saying Tiger's swing isn't the greatest for keeping his body in tact.  Its just that I heard Fuzzy talk about it a long time ago when Tiger was fresh on tour.  Yes, I think we can say Fuzzy was right.  That doesn't mean Tiger wont win 21, but I was concerned enough to think it could have been a problem for him.  I was also surprised when Tiger got married.  I though he would wait until about this age before he settled down to the dual commitment of family and golf.  While it is no guarantee that marriage and a family will hurt a career, I never thought it would help a young Tiger.

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Jeff

A lot of folks have been saying Tiger's swing isn't the greatest for keeping his body in tact.  Its just that I heard Fuzzy talk about it a long time ago when Tiger was fresh on tour.  Yes, I think we can say Fuzzy was right.  That doesn't mean Tiger wont win 21, but I was concerned enough to think it could have been a problem for him.  I was also surprised when Tiger got married.  I though he would wait until about this age before he settled down to the dual commitment of family and golf.  While it is no guarantee that marriage and a family will hurt a career, I never thought it would help a young Tiger.

Ciao

Sean,
Fuzzy's right?
14 majors later???
Do you think there's any golfer alive who if told he would only win 14 majors because of the stress his swing caused, that would change?
Tiger could win 2-3 more chipping it at 3/4 speed
By the way, your swing nd mine won't hold up either and eventuall our backs will hurt too