What makes a putt break uphill (not due to grain)???

[Richard Choi]

Last fall, I had a great fortune to go back to Ann Arbor for some football and golf. I relished playing at the University of Michigan golf course as it is where I learned to play this game. I had a great time and enjoyed the course immensely.

However, I could not believe how difficult it was to read the greens at the UM golf course. I had at least 4 or 5 putts where I swear the putt broke uphill! There was an accomplished amateur player in my group and he kept repeating "remember, all putts break towards the State street" and he couldn't have been more correct. Even when your eyes told you otherwise.

So, my question is - I know putts don't break uphill and it is just an optical illusion, but what causes this optical illusion? Is there some archie tricks to creating this optical illusion? Or is it just (fortunate) luck that happened with settling of the soil over the years?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Putts break uphill as well as downhill, it's just minimized because you are making a firmer stroke.

[Richard Choi]

I am not talking about putts that break left or right as I putt uphill. I am talking about a putt where I swear the putt should break left to right, but it breaks right to left instead.

[George Pazin]

My money is on the surroundings deceiving you. Maybe the surroundings are more obviously downhill, and though the putt is still going downhill, the appearance of a lesser slope makes it look uphill.

Hope that makes some sense, doesn't sound or read well.

[jeffwarne]

I am not talking about putts that break left or right as I putt uphill. I am talking about a putt where I swear the putt should break left to right, but it breaks right to left instead.

Richard, typically happens in the mountains or on a property where there is a predomonant tilt in one direction.
an internal contour on a green in the opposite direction can appear uphill against such a slope, but actually is downhill due to the severity of the tilt of the overall lay of the land

[David_Elvins]

Richard,

If the general slope of the land around the green is significant, it reduces the golfers ability to judge what is flat/horizontal.  

When a putt breaks "uphill" you will generally find that it breaks in the direction of the predominant slope around the green.  

eg. you hear stuff like "At merion, everything breaks towards 11th green" (the low point on the property).

[Jim_Kennedy]

You will never again be fooled if you do a quick plumb-bob. It's foolproof.

[Carl Johnson]

There's a green like that on my home course.  I'd figured it was the surroundings, but never thought much more about it than that.  One other golf-related experience I had with this phenomenon was on a visit to the Electric Brae in Ayrshire on the way back to Troon after a round at Turnberry several years ago.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Brae

If you're in the area, it is an interesting experience to go have.

[archie_struthers]

 

Gravity works time and time again ....in lieu of incredibly strong grain that you might find in hawaii or courses close to the equator putts break down hill only .....a local club here in Philly that gives tha impression is Stonewall (old)  ...on closer examination it is an optical illusion ...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Richard, it's usually the visual counterbalance in the surrounding area to the slope of the green.

The first time I played Baltusrol Upper I was in a tournament with a shotgun tee off.
My first hole was # 3.
I hit a good iron onto the green and read the putt with a break of a few feet.
When I asked the caddy where I should aim, he walked up about 15 feet above the hole.
My first thought was, "it's 8:00 am, and they gave me caddy who's been drinking for three hours."
So, I added a little to my initial read.
After I hit and watched the putt, I said, "God Damn, I never saw that, maybe he's sober as a judge"
I marveled at how some greens broke more and some greens broke far less than I read.
The surrounds were what through me off, they could make a green appear to break in one direction, when it did just the opposite, or, alot more.

If you used a level, you would see the true slope and understand how you had been deceived by the backround.

It's like that exercise where the line is the same length, but the way the end of the line is configured, visually, leads you to conclude that one is longer/shorter than the other


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[Paul Jones]

There are a couple of holes on my course where they put mounds around a green to decieve you.  I usually try to find the lowest spot when I am walking up to the green, when in doubt I figure the putt will break that way.

[Anthony Gray]

   Nothing will go as planed with that football coach on campus.

    Anthony

[Buck Wolter]

I thought all putts in Ann Arbor broke towards Columbus -- nothing to do with gravity, more of a vacuum.

[Richard Choi]

I expect that out of someone like JC, but you, Anthony? 

[Bill_McBride]

The most pronounced I ever saw that was at the Broadmoor course in Colorado Springs, on the Ross greens.

Somebody told me every putt broke away from the carillon on the mountain.  It was the first time I ever read putts with my ears!

And it was true!  If a putt appeared to break toward the mountain, it was an optical illusion.  Quite a few of them did.

[Adam Clayman]

Richard. When there's a confluence of slopes, the ball might still be reacting to the earlier slope before it has a chance to either straighten up, or, take the slope that is nearest the hole.
 Assuming you are reading it correctly and not as others have pointed out are not being fooled by the overall slant to the site(hole)

[Phil_the_Author]

Everything you had to drink at while tailgating...

[JC Jones]

Richard,

Remember, Anthony is a WVU guy so he has to hate RichRod.  I love RichRod and hope that he never leaves (partly because I find him so inspirational) .

I can think of two places where I have really noticed this.  Once was at Torrey Pines where a putt would break up the hill but towards the ocean because, although the green was tilted away from the ocean, it wasn't enough to counter the slope of the entire property towards the ocean.

The other was this fall on #11 at Charlotte Country Club.  Similar situation where the greater slope of the surrounding land was one direction and the green was sitting on top of the slope and there was a bump that appear to move the ball the opposite direction.  The slope of the surrounding land prevailed.

[Jason Connor]

Richard, typically happens in the mountains or on a property where there is a predomonant tilt in one direction.
an internal contour on a green in the opposite direction can appear uphill against such a slope, but actually is downhill due to the severity of the tilt of the overall lay of the land

Exactly.  Imagine those times when you're sitting in a stopped car and a car beside you starts going backwards.

You see this from your peripheral vision and you press the brake even more firmly because your eyes tell you you're going forward -- even though you're not.

It's all about perspective.  You can't beat gravity.  But you're eyes can erroneously tell your brain that you are.

[Jamey Bryan]

Richard

The guys, starting with Mucci, that talk about the illusion of the green's cant being opposite the general slope of the land have it.  This is something the Golden Age courses (with their generally more severe overall slopes) seem to offer much more than modern designs.  Ross, in particular, seems to have masterfully benched greens into slopes so that putts seem to break uphill.

A related funny story from Camden.....   About 15 years ago two brothers from North Carolina (both very good players and successful in regional tournaments) played in their first Carolinas Fourball.  They shot 72, 74 in qualifying and missed the cut.  They entered the next year and again shot 72 in the first round of qualifying.  That night I ran into them at dinner and joined them for (several) drinks, during which they expressed the opinion that Camden was the worst course they'd ever played and that the greens were unputtable.  I told them it was fairly simple.....   Knights Hill Road (abutting the front nine) is the highest point on the course; if you see a putt breaking toward Knights Hill, look at it again.  If you still see it breaking that way, play it but cut the break in half.  Similarly, the railroad tracks are the lowest point of the property, and putts will generally break to the tracks on the back nine.  The brothers went out and shot 62 the next day, easily making match play, and haven't missed a Fourball since!  (They bought me dinner the next year, too).

A related comment....   Jack Nicklaus once commented that the first step in reading any putt was to place the green in relation to the overall slope of the surrounding property.

Jamey

[Ed Oden]

In my experience (including the hole Carl is referring to), the seeds of illusion are usually sown long before you get to the green.  Maybe it's the view of the approach shot from the fairway.  Or perhaps the walk up to the green.  But whatever the source, your mind has already subconsciously bought into the notion that the slope works a certain way before you've actually seen it.  It's hard for the eyes to overcome that predisposition when reading a putt.  The best holes of this ilk are those where the deception still works even after repeated play.

[TEPaul]

"You will never again be fooled if you do a quick plumb-bob. It's foolproof."


That is all I've ever used to read putts and it is pretty much foolproof in my opinion and experience. However, I have been fooled a handful of times and on one particular putt a number of times despite what my plumb-bobbing says. And on that latter one it wasn't even by a little, it was by a lot. My caddie told me but I didn't believe him. I still don't understand what goes wrong with that one as I've had it a number of times and it is the only one in my 25 year experience that just seems to not plumb-bob right at all. I've looked and looked at it and all around that green and what's visible as far as one can see and I still can't understand it or explain it.

But on the other hand I quite like and embrace some of the mysteries of golf and I suppose golf architecture.

[Ian Andrew]

It's the grass your playing on....

"It's a cross of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia."

[Mike_Cocking]

A bad read!

[Patrick_Mucci]

It's the grass your playing on....

"It's a cross of Bluegrass, Kentucky Bluegrass, Featherbed Bent, and Northern California Sensemilia."

Ian,

You're wrong, it's the grass he's smoking