Bandon Dunes and Enlightened Capitalism

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony, as far as Libby is concerned, here is a quote from Wikipedia:

"On August 28, 2006, Christopher Hitchens claimed that Richard Armitage was the primary source of the Valerie Plame leak and that Fitzgerald knew this at the beginning of his investigation.[130] This was supported a month later by Armitage himself, who claimed that Mr. Fitzgerald had instructed him not to go public with this information."  

The actual facts and timeline on this are a lot more complicated than most people can believe... Libby was convicted of conspiracy because he intended to expose Valerie Plame's status as a covert CIA agent as a direct retribution to her husband debunking the Niger uranium cake story fabricated by the Bush Administration during the lead-up to the Iraq War. Armitage inadvertantly disclosed her name to the first journalist who published it, because he was lead to believe by people inside the White House (i.e. Libby) that Plame was not a covert agent. Another lie...

As a reward for playing his role in yet another classified media leak cover-up, Iraq war cheerleader Hitchens has since been diagnosed with incurable brain cancer. Based on that chain of events, I respectfully disagree with Hitchen's theory that "God is not Great". Nevermind, Hitchens will soon get to find out for himself.

He might also get the opportunity to meet the approximately 10 Mid-East contacts of Plame who were killed after her status was revealed in the media.

[Jim Nugent]

Anthony, you either don't understand what you wrote, or are being disingenuous.  You contrasted two so-called models of capitalism.  One version -- the enlightened one in your mind -- produced Bandon Dunes.  You said it "should be encouraged in all areas of business or public enterprise."

Then there's your other version of capitalism.  It runs "roughshod over the competition, unions, federal regulations and the environment."  You said that in it "people get to make what they want free of any government oversight or consideration of the long-term impact on our planet..."

Fine, use "roughshod" instead of "rape."  More nonsense semantics on your part.   

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony, you either don't understand what you wrote, or are being disingenuous.  You contrasted two so-called models of capitalism.  One version -- the enlightened one in your mind -- produced Bandon Dunes.  You said it "should be encouraged in all areas of business or public enterprise."

Then there's your other version of capitalism.  It runs "roughshod over the competition, unions, federal regulations and the environment."  You said that in it "people get to make what they want free of any government oversight or consideration of the long-term impact on our planet..."

Fine, use "roughshod" instead of "rape."  More nonsense semantics on your part.   

Jim, I understand perfectly what I wrote. The subtext was provided by Steven Goodwin the author. I have provided the alternative narrative. Let's be clear here, I'm not accusing Mike Keiser of entering the project with the intention of razing this property and making it conform to his wishes ('accidental' gorse fire not withstanding). The fact that he made $100 million out recycled greeting cards at a time when sustainable business models were not all the rage indicates to me that he probably sees himself as more of a steward of the environment that the average pro-business Republican. Protecting our environment wouldn't even be an political issue if certain politicians hadn't decided they want act as sock puppets for the coal, oil and gas industries.

If you're not currently in the employ of Exxon Mobil or the Koch Brothers, you should be able to see the way we live on this planet is unsustainable. One of two things is going to happen: The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere will cause such catastrophic climate change that it will completely disrupt society and the commercial activity that supports it; or we will run out of fossil fuels before we have the infrastructure and distributions systems in place to move seamlessly into a world powered by renewable resources.

I have no idea of what the total carbon footprint of the Bandon Dunes resort is... Due to its unforeseen rise as a golfing destination, its remote locale actually counts against... I could easily imagine a scenario where Mike Keiser installs 15-20 acres of solar and takes the resort off the grid. However, the amount of CO2 emissions created by those traveling to the resort means that every resort guest would need to purchase carbon offsets for their travel for Bandon Dunes to be considered a sustainable enterprise.

Instead of arguing the toss about this, perhaps that is some the GCA community might be interested in doing. Before you post anything related to your visit at Bandon Dunes, you have to purchase carbon offsets for your travel to the resort.
 

[John Kavanaugh]

I would love to have a caption contest on what Anthony's dog is thinking. 

(Edited to remove a question mark that I found too disturbing to leave as was.)

[RJ_Daley]

Just as a point for what it is worth.  Wouldn't it be better if Bandon resorts did want to go in the alternative energy offset directions, if they went with something wind generated, rather than solar?  Have they invented anything using rain power yet?   

Honestly Anthony, I don't think that Bandon Resorts is the best place for us to build the barricades upon which to fight the revolution (gorse fires or not).  I'll be glad to fight the revolution  , but would rather construct the barricades outside the Koch Bros steel plant in Birmingham AL or outside the headquarters of one of the cartel monopoly entities, health insurance co.s, or corrupt Wall St financial centers of power. 

[Jeff Taylor]

Anthony wrtites:
"One of two things is going to happen: The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere will cause such catastrophic climate change that it will completely disrupt society and the commercial activity that supports it"

You are kidding right? Is there a point at which the suposed effect of CO2 tops out and further CO2 emissions are meaningless for climate?
Please point me to the study that proves that recent temperature change is a result of manmade carbon emissions and nothing else. It would be helpful.

[Anthony Butler]

I would love to have a caption contest on what Anthony's dog is thinking. 

(Edited to remove a question mark that I found too disturbing to leave as was.)

A list of things that my dog thinks:

1) I'm hungry... is that thing you're pointing at me edible?

2) How dare you compare my intelligence to someone who doesn't understand the science behind global warming.

3) You're not a friend of Michael Vick's are you?

[Anthony Butler]

[Deleted] reposted below.

[Jim Nugent]

Anthony, you made a charge in your first post, about Bandon, capitalism and government.  I doubt(ed) what you said is true, but was interested to see you back it up.  I have repeatedly asked you to give evidence.  You haven't done so.  Instead you dance around other issues, make new charges that are equally unsubstantiated, namecall, and claim you did not say what you said. 

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony wrtites:
"One of two things is going to happen: The amount of CO2 in the atmosphere will cause such catastrophic climate change that it will completely disrupt society and the commercial activity that supports it"

You are kidding right? Is there a point at which the suposed effect of CO2 tops out and further CO2 emissions are meaningless for climate?
Please point me to the study that proves that recent temperature change is a result of manmade carbon emissions and nothing else. It would be helpful.

There are long term variation of temperatures that occur naturally. The Ice Age for instance. There is some dispute how long these cycles are... they are certainly longer than the very short history of industrialized human activity. It's generally accepted that sufficient CO2 had built up in atmosphere by the 1950s for it to have a measurable effect on climate and global temperatures beyond those that occur naturally. The 10 hottest years in recorded history have all occurred in the last 20 years.

The scientific basis for global warming is universally accepted by every scientist not working for the Heritage Foundation, Club for Growth or the Cato Institute. Weather data indicates it is indeed having the anticipated effect i.e. As the CO2 in the atmosphere increases, temperatures have  risen on a global basis. I can't really help you if you refuse to admit 2 + 2 equals 4.

Since I know there's a couple of other skeptics out there, here's something I prepared earlier...

THE SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION FOR CLIMATE CHANGE:


RECORDED PPM MEASUREMENTS OF CARBON IN THE ATMOSPHERE:

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony, you made a charge in your first post, about Bandon, capitalism and government.  I doubt(ed) what you said is true, but was interested to see you back it up.  I have repeatedly asked you to give evidence.  You haven't done so.  Instead you dance around other issues, make new charges that are equally unsubstantiated, namecall, and claim you did not say what you said. 

I'm not going to change your mind... I have accepted that.

It's time for you to accept nothing's going to change your mind either.

You'll save us both a lot of aggravation.

[William_G]

Anthony, you made a charge in your first post, about Bandon, capitalism and government.  I doubt(ed) what you said is true, but was interested to see you back it up.  I have repeatedly asked you to give evidence.  You haven't done so.  Instead you dance around other issues, make new charges that are equally unsubstantiated, namecall, and claim you did not say what you said. 

I'm not going to change your mind... I have accepted that.

It's time for you to accept nothing's going to change your mind either.

You'll save us both a lot of aggravation.

+1

[John Kavanaugh]

Dear Anthony's dog,

I would never argue with your right to eat your own shit but please don't try to convince me that smelling the ass of my neighbor will give me an indication of our block's carbon footprint.  I know it must be s bitch living with the one reformed flower child where a dog can't even get a decent contact high. That is the way of modern corporate America. Sorry but sometimes a dogs life is exactly what it seems, a dogs life indeed. 

[Jim Nugent]

Anthony, you made a charge in your first post, about Bandon, capitalism and government.  I doubt(ed) what you said is true, but was interested to see you back it up.  I have repeatedly asked you to give evidence.  You haven't done so.  Instead you dance around other issues, make new charges that are equally unsubstantiated, namecall, and claim you did not say what you said. 

I'm not going to change your mind... I have accepted that.

It's time for you to accept nothing's going to change your mind either.

You'll save us both a lot of aggravation.

Cute.  But you started this thread.  Shame you can't provide one piece of evidence to back up your idea. 

[Jeff Taylor]

Anthony writes:
"The scientific basis for global warming is universally accepted by every scientist not working for the Heritage Foundation, Club for Growth or the Cato Institute. Weather data indicates it is indeed having the anticipated effect i.e. As the CO2 in the atmosphere increases, temperatures have  risen on a global basis. I can't really help you if you refuse to admit 2 + 2 equals 4. "

Ah, the old correlation equals causation argument / fallacy. Next comes a stab at the unconvinced for their associations. You then go on to correlate skepticism with an inability to add. Well done.
Most people get it that 2+2 equals 4. What if one of the 2's is not a 2? The people in charge of our temperature record have been losing credibility and have done very little to get it back. Temperature record smearing, loss of original raw data, and poor proxy record management have been severe body blows to those in the warmist camp. If your career is based on CO2 emission management, it may be time to start looking for a new career. Politics might be the way to go. Your argument skills will serve you well in that world.

[William_G]

Anthony, you made a charge in your first post, about Bandon, capitalism and government.  I doubt(ed) what you said is true, but was interested to see you back it up.  I have repeatedly asked you to give evidence.  You haven't done so.  Instead you dance around other issues, make new charges that are equally unsubstantiated, namecall, and claim you did not say what you said. 

I'm not going to change your mind... I have accepted that.

It's time for you to accept nothing's going to change your mind either.

You'll save us both a lot of aggravation.

Cute.  But you started this thread.  Shame you can't provide one piece of evidence to back up your idea. 

Jim,

In the book in question it is clear there was a "synergy" between the developers/capitalists, McKee/Keiser, and the local goverment agencies. This synergy and mutual give and take essentially helped form what Bandon is today. Nuf said.

Thanks again to Howard Mckee and Mike Keiser.

Thanks

FWIW, if any of you have not read the book, you should!

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony, you made a charge in your first post, about Bandon, capitalism and government.  I doubt(ed) what you said is true, but was interested to see you back it up.  I have repeatedly asked you to give evidence.  You haven't done so.  Instead you dance around other issues, make new charges that are equally unsubstantiated, namecall, and claim you did not say what you said. 

I'm not going to change your mind... I have accepted that.

It's time for you to accept nothing's going to change your mind either.

You'll save us both a lot of aggravation.

Cute.  But you started this thread.  Shame you can't provide one piece of evidence to back up your idea. 

Hopefully the Haney Project featuring Rush Limbaugh will visit Bandon Dunes shortly and give you everything you need...

[Anthony Butler]

Anthony writes:
"The scientific basis for global warming is universally accepted by every scientist not working for the Heritage Foundation, Club for Growth or the Cato Institute. Weather data indicates it is indeed having the anticipated effect i.e. As the CO2 in the atmosphere increases, temperatures have  risen on a global basis. I can't really help you if you refuse to admit 2 + 2 equals 4. "

Ah, the old correlation equals causation argument / fallacy. Next comes a stab at the unconvinced for their associations. You then go on to correlate skepticism with an inability to add. Well done.
Most people get it that 2+2 equals 4. What if one of the 2's is not a 2? The people in charge of our temperature record have been losing credibility and have done very little to get it back. Temperature record smearing, loss of original raw data, and poor proxy record management have been severe body blows to those in the warmist camp. If your career is based on CO2 emission management, it may be time to start looking for a new career. Politics might be the way to go. Your argument skills will serve you well in that world.

I imagine your dad was a scientist for Philip Morris...

[Anthony Butler]

Dear Anthony's dog,

I would never argue with your right to eat your own shit but please don't try to convince me that smelling the ass of my neighbor will give me an indication of our block's carbon footprint.  I know it must be s bitch living with the one reformed flower child where a dog can't even get a decent contact high. That is the way of modern corporate America. Sorry but sometimes a dogs life is exactly what it seems, a dogs life indeed. 

JK-Weren't you asked to leave this site?  Anyway I would appreciate it if you would keep your mouth off my dog's ass.

Respectfully Yours,

arb:

[John Kavanaugh]

Dear Anthony's dog,

I would never argue with your right to eat your own shit but please don't try to convince me that smelling the ass of my neighbor will give me an indication of our block's carbon footprint.  I know it must be s bitch living with the one reformed flower child where a dog can't even get a decent contact high. That is the way of modern corporate America. Sorry but sometimes a dogs life is exactly what it seems, a dogs life indeed. 

JK-Weren't you asked to leave this site?  Anyway I would appreciate it if you would keep your mouth off my dog's ass.

Respectfully Yours,

arb:

I apologize to your dog, he deserves better.  You would think I would have learned by now that posting drunk from an iPad while laying in a pool of your own bodily fluids is a bad idea.  What is your excuse?

[Jeff Taylor]

"I imagine your dad was a scientist for Philip Morris..."

Another content rich response. It is becoming clear to me where all the hot air is coming from.

[William_G]

What is interesting from a golf architecture standpoint is how the layout of the original course was planned.

Howard McKee with appropriate sensitivity to the Native Americans and the overnment agencies situated the lodging where it is today as opposed to on the ocean. Creating more of an inland village, and thus creating an oceanfront golf course instead of oceanfront dining.

Thanks

[Bill_McBride]

The idea that big corporations are universally pro-free market is one of the biggest myths out there.

The very idea of a free market is one of the biggest myths out there. 

Sorry to dredge up this but finally sat down to read this thread.........

[Bill_McBride]

What is interesting from a golf architecture standpoint is how the layout of the original course was planned.

Howard McKee with appropriate sensitivity to the Native Americans and the overnment agencies situated the lodging where it is today as opposed to on the ocean. Creating more of an inland village, and thus creating an oceanfront golf course instead of oceanfront dining.

Thanks

Are you seriously trying to get this thread diverted to a discussion of golf architecture?   

[Mike_Young]

Dear Anthony's dog,

I would never argue with your right to eat your own shit but please don't try to convince me that smelling the ass of my neighbor will give me an indication of our block's carbon footprint.  I know it must be s bitch living with the one reformed flower child where a dog can't even get a decent contact high. That is the way of modern corporate America. Sorry but sometimes a dogs life is exactly what it seems, a dogs life indeed. 

JK-Weren't you asked to leave this site?  Anyway I would appreciate it if you would keep your mouth off my dog's ass.

Respectfully Yours,

arb:

I apologize to your dog, he deserves better.  You would think I would have learned by now that posting drunk from an iPad while laying in a pool of your own bodily fluids is a bad idea.  What is your excuse?

When a man tells you his dog is his best friend.....that dog has a problem....