[Anthony Gray]

 Of the newer courses,The Castle Course has a good bit of elevation change.Not the easiest links course to walk.

   Anthony

[Doug Ralston]

oops

[Bryan Izatt]

Chris,

Looking at aerial of the course, it looks like that par 5 you are referring to is the 14th?  Looks something like 150 feet uphill.  Certainly right up there with most-uphill holes.  The preceding hole looks equally downhill, so I'm guessing that overall the course is relatively neutral elevation wise.

[Bryan Izatt]

Anthony,

Having seen The Castle property before there was a golf course, I'd have to say it was relatively flat with some general tilt towards the sea.  Now they've grafted on some humps and bumps, but I can't see it anywhere near as "uphill" as others mentioned on here.  It doesn't even look as hilly as your beloved Cruden Bay or that other new Castle (Stuart) course.  It does photograph quite nicely (courtesy of Panoramio)

[Bryan Izatt]

John,

Thanks for added info.  The picture does provide a better perspective of the "slopes".  Nice form on the drive too.

[Doug Wright]

I don't think it's the "most" uphill course in the world, but Howth GC outside Dublin was seriously uphill and a real slog to walk.

[Jon Wiggett]

John,

Thanks for added info.  The picture does provide a better perspective of the "slopes".  Nice form on the drive too.

Yes John,

nice swing. Is that the heady days of years gone by or the wonders of photo shop?


Jon (unter der Gurtel) W

[Garland Bayley]

"Elevated greens do not produce the same positive emotional responses as to elevated tees. Attacking any target on higher ground is more challenging and less likely to be successful. The green is analogous to the place where the quarry is captured. On the tee, the golfer surveys the surrounding terrain. On the green, the golfer's attention is more narrowly focused on the space immediately surrounding the hole. Further, elevated greens are like fortresses; they are difficult to approach, and they magnify errors. Elevated greens appeal primarily to advanced golfers who are looking for an extra challenge." Forrest Richardson, Routing the Golf Course, pg 285.

My condolences Bryan.

[Bryan Izatt]

No sympathy required.  I quite enjoy my uphill course.  And, when I tire of it, I play our other course.

And, who is this Forrest guy?  What does he know?   


....



Oh, wait, wait ........  I know him!  Doesn't he wear a red plaid jacket?  He recommended Olivas Links to me once.  Now there's a course with no uphill, or downhill, for that matter; but, nice nevertheless. It's a big world out there I hear.

[Brent Hutto]

I think Pitlochry Golf Club in the center of Scotland is probably on the same order of uphill-ness as your new course, Bryan. Here's a quote from the beginning of my little photo essay on the course...

The first five holes are uphill, uphill, uphill, crosshill (Par 3) and uphill respectively. I ask the club Captain which wind direction made the course play toughest and he said it was from the North because the first five are uphill and upwind. That is the prevailing direction and on the two days I played it was primarily from the Northwest. I tend to agree with his assessment. For a short course those first five holes played like five miles on 12-13C temps and 10-15mph breezes (with stronger gusts during my first round). I need to find a small-interval topo map but I'd say the overall climb from clubhouse to fifth green is probably 300 feet or a bit more. Then just to add insult to injury there's an additional set of steps leading up 20 feet or so to the back tees on the sixth before you're finally allowed to start downhill (only to return uphill several more times later in the round).

Here's a shot back down toward the clubhouse from about halfway up that opening stretch



And here's the top of the course, save for the steps up to the elevated tee on the following hole

[Daryl David]

How about Gullane # 1 for uphill?  That is quite a climb.

[Bryan Izatt]

Brent,

Pitlochry looks like an uphill slog from 1 through 5.  I'd guesstimate, from Google Earth, the elevation change on that part of the course to be around 250 feet.  If you look at all 18 holes and their tee to green elevation changes, it looks like the total elevation rise of the uphill holes is about 400 feet. That's almost up there with my course.  The total elevation fall of the downhill holes though is around 475 feet.  So, it it's a net downhill course.     Tell that to your legs after 5 holes.   

[Bryan Izatt]

Daryl,

The second hole at Gullane #1 or the third hole at Gullane #2 are certainly uphill, although I'd estimate them at around 75 feet, and not therefore up to some of the competition here for single holes.  But once you've climbed the hill, the upper part of the course is relatively flat and equally up and down.  The initial uphill holes are offset of course by the closing downhill hole.

It's interesting from the examples that have been raised, that those that laid out old Scottish courses seemed more inclined to take on hills directly than many of the more modern modern architects do.

[Alex Miller]

One of my former home courses Palos Verdes Golf Club has a NET rise from tee to green of 160 feet through the round. I've walked it many many times.

With drops of 90, 80, and 105 feet on 3 different holes I think it's gross climb un uphill holes may take the cake. It's a tough walk in as 16 and 17 climb 185 feet, all from tee to green!

I added the total climb of the course to be 500 feet, again all from tee to green only including the uphill holes (i.e. I did not count swales or dips but only the tee to green climb). There are certainly instances where some tees are lower than the previous green, but I think mostly it's because the course is routed on the side of a large hill.

Holes where the previous green is more elevated than the next tee:

2 to 3 -25
3 to 4 -15
4 to 5 -10
7 to 8 -5
8 to 9 -5
11 to 12 -35
12 to 13 -10
16 to 17 -20
18 to 1 -25

Hole 5 is 95 feet uphill, 16 is 100, and 17 is 85. Again, that is just tee to green.

[William_G]

Chambers Bay has some uphill holes, LOL.

[Bryan Izatt]

Alex,

Yup, looks like Palos Verdes has some significant climbing holes and drops from greens to following tees.  Looks like we're in the same ballpark of total for uphill holes, but I think I still have you a bit on the net uphillness.   

Was the course designed by Thomas and Bell?  Why don't we hear more about it?  Is it worth look up if I get back to that area?

[Bryan Izatt]

William,

You're going to have to provide some numbers to play in this game.  I haven't been there but it doesn't look as hilly as some others in this thread, based on pictures.

[Matthew Petersen]

There are a lot of resort courses at Colorado ski resorts with some crazy uphill stretches. The course at Telluride comes to mind, but nothing might be as crazy as the course at Beaver Creek. It's an out-and-back routing with the first tee and eighteenth green at the resort on the highest point of the property. 1-9 play straight downhill through the steep valley. 10-18 play straight back up. I have never played the course, but I walked it during a charity event one year. The climb back to the clubhouse is absolutely brutal.

[Bryan Izatt]

Matthew,

Sometimes elevation changes are deceptive.  At Beaver Creek I measure 1 to 8 as over 450 feet downhill.  There is also one hole on the back that loops back downhill, but I didn't include that.  From 9 to 18, with that one exception, the holes are uphill.  They only measure a total of 275 feet uphill.  There must be some climbs between greens and following tees.  The first tee also appears to be a good 40 feet above the 18th green.  Because the back is uphill it may be more tiring because it's late in the round.  Overall, BC is a net 175 feet downhill course.

[Alex Miller]

Alex,

Yup, looks like Palos Verdes has some significant climbing holes and drops from greens to following tees.  Looks like we're in the same ballpark of total for uphill holes, but I think I still have you a bit on the net uphillness.   

Was the course designed by Thomas and Bell?  Why don't we hear more about it?  Is it worth look up if I get back to that area?

Bryan,
The net "uphillness" of your course is pretty amazing. PV is a Thomas/Bell design, but could probably use a restoration similar to LACC. I think it's about $220 to play the course as it's private, so it's really up to you whether it's worth a go or not, but it's the best course around for miles. However, there is no restriction with regard to walking around as it is technically a city park. We'd hear more about it if it were more easily accessible (the freeways are not close by) and if George Thomas' design showed through a bit more. The Pac-10 ladies play there every year and it is known as the hardest course they play all year. It's about 6,200 yards with small well defended greens and many uphill approaches.

Another L.A. area course with a lot of elevation change is DeBell Golf Club in Burbank. The first two holes both go 115 feet uphill each! What's really astonishing is that the first hole is only 400 yards! It's not a very good course, but it has 435 feet of uphill holes and 505 feet of downhill holes!

[Bryan Izatt]

Alex,

At that price, it's off my radar.  Three rounds at Rustic sounds better.

[Richard Phinney]

Stonehaven, a picturesque clifftop course south of Aberdeen has long been notorious for some steep elevation changes, well at least for 120 years.  In The Duffers’ Golf Club Papers (1891) , a fictional account of some Montrose hackers, a match in Stonehaven is marred by the retirement of "the Pleader", a local lawyer who takes one look at  the steep climbs required and retires to the clubhouse with a bottle of whisky. His place is taken by the Montrose professional (who had been caddying), and who based on the famous Bob Dow. He is equally unimpressed with the terrain:

‘Weel, I’ve been on mony a gowf coorse,’ he says, ‘but this palls the deevil.’

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