Mackenzie letter and sketch on Bayside Links (NY) bunkers

[Neil_Crafter]

I recently came across a three page Mackenzie letter on Bayside Links in Queens, NY, that was for sale but had already been sold by the time I found out about it (rats!). Fortunately the seller was kind enough to pass on the scans to me.

The letter is addressed to the greenkeeper at Bayside a fellow by the name of Griffith. He was William H Griffith who was superintending the construction of the course for Wendell Miller and Mackenzie. Griffith came to Bayside from Mount Union, PA where he had been in charge of the Juniata Valley Colony Club.

The sketch that is included on p3 of the letter was also reproduced in "The Life and Work of Dr Alister Mackenzie" on p155, although the text of the letter that explains the sketch was not included.

What is interesting is that Mackenzie wanted the bunkers deepened but in such a way as to allow for lesser players to putt out of certain parts but away from the pin, while the better player could play out direct but over a higher lip. This is the first time I have read anything from Mackenzie describing this philosophy. How it would work in practice with different pin locations is another matter.

Although the letter is not dated, we have a few clues in the letter in that Mac was about to be in Augusta for a few weeks and that Bayside was near completion. We think this dates the letter to July 1931.

The George Meyer referred to was the client, from the Cord Meyer company.

Anyway, I thought it was interesting item to share.

[TEPaul]

Neil:

I find that kind of combined drawing and textual information done contemporaneously for a course to be some of the best and the most directly educational and edifying that can be found on architecture. Hugh Alison did the same thing with drawings and textual explanations of it for some of the recommendations he made for Pine Valley.

[Niall C]

Neil

Fantastic stuff. What strikes me is that MacKenzie leaves a fair bit of room for interpretation. I note that there are no sizes on the plan or letter or indeed instructions on how to build the bunkers. He seems to have left that upto Griffiths.

Niall

[Tom MacWood]

Neil
That is fascinating. You find more historical stuff at internet auctions than any man I know. I've never come across a bunker quite like the one Mackenzie described. Do you think this bunker style was something he developed for Bayside or did he utilize it elsewhere? Have you run across any photos of these bunkers?

[TEPaul]

There are actually some old photos of greens and their surrounding bunkers that Mackenzie may've had something to do with where it is really plain to see the transitions from sand bunkers to putting green are so low that it would be very easy to putt the ball right out of a bunker onto the green. One good example is the old 7th green at Pebble Beach! Other great examples are the numerous photos of green surrounding bunkers at Cypress Point when it first opened.

[TEPaul]

Someone should probably try to do an in-depth study and analysis of the strategic use of the putter in the philosophical golf architecture minds of the likes of Mackenzie and Behr. It appears from what they both wrote as well as what they wrote they argued about with others that the actual use of a putter strategicially may be more interesting and more important out of bunkers and such and "through the green" as well than many of us today may understand or appreciate!

I should also mention when they wrote what I just referred to, the so-called sand wedge had basically not yet even been invented (apparently by Gene Sarazen in the 1930s), not to even mention most of the old putters had far more loft on them than modern putters and probably because putting greens back then were probably less than half the speeds they are today.

[Neil_Crafter]

Thanks for the comments.

Tom, not too many photos exist of the bunkering at Bayside that I have been able to find. so it is hard to say whether Mac's instructions to Griffith were carried out. The only ones I have are aerial views which tell nothing about the highs and lows.

Niall, yes no scale or anything like that, so plenty of room for interpretation.

TE, Mackenzie clearly liked being able to say that people could play his holes with a putter, but before this I had never read that he wanted poorer players to be able to put out of them too.

[Sean_Tully]

Neil

I would say that they July time frame is pretty solid.

This appears to the same document that was for sale down at Pebble just in the last year or two. If it went for anything that they were asking for then I can assure you that you would have passed on it!!

Tully

[TEPaul]

"TE, Mackenzie clearly liked being able to say that people could play his holes with a putter, but before this I had never read that he wanted poorer players to be able to put out of them too."


Neil:

I guess unfortunately for us Mackenzie just never said or wrote every single thing he thought regarding architecture. But if one studies various aspects of certain things enough it seems to me some things become fairly obvious. For instance, just look at Julian Graham's amazing set of photographs of the holes of CPC just after it opened (the ones with Mackenzie playing).

Look at that bunkering and particularly around the greens. Do you see a pattern to it where the most significant upsweeps are always in the direction of the line to the hole or green and the incoming sides and particularly the incoming fronts are just about always extremely low profile and flatter?

In my opinion, that was so common it was no coincidence. Let the dub (as he called him) find a way out of the bunker if that meant sideways or even backwards and with a putter!

[Bill_McBride]

"TE, Mackenzie clearly liked being able to say that people could play his holes with a putter, but before this I had never read that he wanted poorer players to be able to put out of them too."


Neil:

I guess unfortunately for us Mackenzie just never said or wrote every single thing he thought regarding architecture. But if one studies various aspects of certain things enough it seems to me some things become fairly obvious. For instance, just look at Julian Graham's amazing set of photographs of the holes of CPC just after it opened (the ones with Mackenzie playing).

Look at that bunkering and particularly around the greens. Do you see a pattern to it where the most significant upsweeps are always in the direction of the line to the hole or green and the incoming sides and particularly the incoming fronts are just about always extremely low profile and flatter?

In my opinion, that was so common it was no coincidence. Let the dub (as he called him) find a way out of the bunker if that meant sideways or even backwards and with a putter!

One of the bunkers at Cypress Point is the dead opposite in playability from the Mackenzie design shown in this thread.  That's the right side bunker on the par 3 #7.  The face is steep and high, perhaps 15' below the green surface - and there is no option but an explosion toward the green.  The slightly convex slope at the bottom of the bunker is small and balls hit into the bunker tend to gather there.  If one putted out backwards, the ball would wind up another 20' below the green leaving a difficult pitch back over the bunker.

I've played a number of Mackenzie courses and never seen one you could putt out of.  Is it possible the good Dr. had been quaffing a few when he came up with that scheme? 

[Neil_Crafter]

TE
Despite what people think, Mackenzie was one of the more prolific writers on golf course architecture, with two books and many magazine articles. In recent times we have discovered quite a few more of his articles from the English magazines Golfing and Golf Illustrated.

With bunkers that have variable top lines, ie some higher and lower in places, there will be locations that you find your ball in where the shot out may be more or less difficult depending upon where the pin is located. That is what I find a little hard to come to terms with re Mac's comments on that sketch, in that how do you know where someone is going to be in the bunker relative to the pin position. Of course you don't. So you could end up with on occasions good players being able to putt out of such a bunker direct to the flag. Which I am sure was not his intent.

[JC Urbina]

Neil,

Every time I see a sketch done by Mackenzie it's  always very consistent.   Done With Depth and Exaggeration.  I remember years ago some people were  wandering if the lost routings of Mackenzies ideas for the course in South America were originals.  Just a few glances at his sketches would seem to confirm that style of artistic flare.  Almost like analyzing some ones handwriting,   very consistent.

[Brett_Morrissy]

thanks Neil for posting this letter.

Why is that Dr Mackenzie's bunker images always seem to be so exciting - is it Jim's reference to the exaggeration, they always seem to bring a smile to my face.

and the term 'dub', often used in the Doctor's essays and quotes, where does this term originate?

[Neil_Crafter]

Jim
Although not a trained artist in any sense, Mackenzie did have an ability to convey in his drawings what he was trying to get across. And depth and exaggeration as you so correctly pointed out.

Brett
Dub is a pretty old term, but where it originates from I'm not sure.

[Sean_A]

Neil - thanks for the note.  Is it possible to transcribe it?  I cannot read the hand writing.

Ciao

[Neil_Crafter]

OK Sean, here goes with a transcript. I have read a few Mac letters so his handwriting is not too difficult to decipher:

To/ Mr Griffith
Greenkeeper
Bayside Golf Links
Bayside NY

Dear Griffith
I hope to see you at Bayside in a few weeks time.
In the meantime I shall be at the Bon Air Vanderbilt Hotel Augusta Georgia. Before I visit Bayside I would be glad if you would deepen and complete the bunkers. It will be difficult to deepen them after the course is open for play. There are so few bunkers at Bayside that I want those that are there to be properly constructed. I would suggest that you make them so that there are alternative shots out of them. In other words that the good player can play direct at the flag but that the dub may putt out of them but slightly sideways to the usual position of the hole.

A  Good players route

B or C  dubs route

Please show this letter to Mr George Meyer and ask him sanction to complete the bunkering before I arrive in N York.
Yrs truly

[Tom MacWood]

Neil
I'm wondering if Mackenzie employed similar bunker style at Augusta. In some of those old photos in David Owen's book the bunkers look pretty shallow in places.

[Tom MacWood]

Perhaps someone could post some pictures from that book.

[Sean_A]

Neil

Thanks.  What do you spose Dr Mac meant by "dub may putt out of them but slightly sideways to the usual position of the hole"? 

Ciao

Sean

[Bill_McBride]

thanks Neil for posting this letter.

Why is that Dr Mackenzie's bunker images always seem to be so exciting - is it Jim's reference to the exaggeration, they always seem to bring a smile to my face.

and the term 'dub', often used in the Doctor's essays and quotes, where does this term originate?

As a dub myself, I know exactly what he means.  Bernardo Darwin used the term "foozler" as an alternate, while I think Bobby Jones referred to "the long handicap man."

[TEPaul]

Bill McB:

I've always prefered the term "tortoise" (as in the tortoise and the hare). 

[Bill_McBride]

Bill McB:

I've always prefered the term "tortoise" (as in the tortoise and the hare). 

That was at the Aesop Country Club, right?

[JC Urbina]

Neil,

I have looked at the sketches for Pasatiempo that Mackenzie did and the spot elevations he drew aren't even close to the finished grade.

If he had a sense of art and scale why in your opinion was it OUT of SCALE?

[TEPaul]

"That was at the Aesop Country Club, right?"


Or perhaps it was at the Beatrix Potter Golf and Bath Club that also offered a nursery school.

[Neil_Crafter]

Jim
I said Mackenzie had a sense of art - but I did not say scale!
I know many of his green plans appear out of scale, but I do not think they were ever intended to be taken too literally, plus they are also like an axonometric or isometric projection, in that they depict three dimensions and are not simple vertical plan depictions.

Sean
Sorry, can't see why you don't understand what Mac is saying here. If you are a poor player you can put out of the bunker at an angle away from the flag to points B and C. But a better player has to play a lofted explosion over a steep face in the direct line to the hole, line A.