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Jeff Martz

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2010, 11:15:34 AM »
Nick,

Congratulations on the win, BTW!  Thanks for the kind words about my entry though.  I did not submit any other files to supplement the model.  I had some family issues that came up around the deadline time.

I'm not from CA.  I'm from Central PA.  Northumberland, PA  1.5 hours east of PSU Main Campus.

As for picking my site, I just went touring around in Google Earth looking for interesting parcels of land.  I just put in some marking lines of play and moved on to the next interesting site and so on.  Then I went back and had a closer look.  I actually had a handful of sites marked on the Cape as well.  They were down near Barnstable.
"To design courses that can be enjoyed even when you're playing badly, and that will stand the test of time, is the art of golf architecture." -- Tom Doak

Jeff Martz

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2010, 04:19:23 PM »
It seems as though there is something in the water in State College, PA.

recent Golf Hole design contest winners:

2009 Lido - Jeff Martz (PSU grad)
2010 GCA AA Competition - Nick Campanelli (PSU grad)
2010 Lido - Peter Zarlengo (PSU grad)
2010 GD AA Competition - Nick Campanelli (PSU grad)
"To design courses that can be enjoyed even when you're playing badly, and that will stand the test of time, is the art of golf architecture." -- Tom Doak

Joe Bausch

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2010, 07:19:27 PM »
It seems as though there is something in the water in State College, PA.

recent Golf Hole design contest winners:

2009 Lido - Jeff Martz (PSU grad)
2010 GCA AA Competition - Nick Campanelli (PSU grad)
2010 Lido - Peter Zarlengo (PSU grad)
2010 GD AA Competition - Nick Campanelli (PSU grad)

How can I credit JoePa with this wonderful contribution?!  Or at least Willie Park!
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Kyle Harris

Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 07:27:06 PM »
It seems as though there is something in the water in State College, PA.

recent Golf Hole design contest winners:

2009 Lido - Jeff Martz (PSU grad)
2010 GCA AA Competition - Nick Campanelli (PSU grad)
2010 Lido - Peter Zarlengo (PSU grad)
2010 GD AA Competition - Nick Campanelli (PSU grad)

How can I credit JoePa with this wonderful contribution?!  Or at least Willie Park!

Beat me to the punch.

Anthony Fowler

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2010, 08:28:22 PM »
Congratulations Nick!  That land may be the best unused land for golf in America.  I driven by several times (and flown over on Google Earth) fantasizing about the great golf holes that could be there.  Hopefully one day someone will figure out the legal issues (it's on a national seashore, right?) and build a masterpiece there.

Nick Campanelli

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GCA Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2011, 09:54:07 AM »
Dates are finally set for the trip.  I'll definately post pics when i get back.

May 21  |  Crooked Stick with Pete, Alice, and Ron Whitten

May 22  |  Pete Dye Course at French Lick w/ Pete Dye and Ron Whitten

If anyone had insight into either course, let me know.  

-Nick  
Landscape Architect  //  Golf Course Architect

Jim Colton

Re: GCA Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2011, 10:24:05 AM »
Dates are finally set for the trip.  I'll definately post pics when i get back.

May 21  |  Crooked Stick with Pete, Alice, and Ron Whitten

May 22  |  Pete Dye Course at French Lick w/ Pete Dye and Ron Whitten

If anyone had insight into either course, let me know.  

-Nick  

Nick,

 What a great opportunity to spend two days with the Dyes. I'm sure it will come up, but I'd love to hear the logic behind the gumdrop bunkers.

 From their website:


Nick Campanelli

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Re: GCA Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2011, 10:35:36 AM »
...to hide the cart paths?  I've been wondering that myself.  Wintonbury Hills GC in CT has one right of the fairway on 16 as well (obviously not to the scale and number seen at FL, but its definitely unique).

 
Landscape Architect  //  Golf Course Architect

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2011, 10:36:32 AM »
How fantastic
F the golf courses
Enjoy your time with 2 legends
Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: GCA Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2011, 10:38:20 AM »







Jim,

The hole pictured plays much different on the ground.  The volcano bunkers are situated on the right side a short par four with severe trouble left.  The natural play is to play to miss towards the bunkers with less than a 2% chance of finding the sand.  They are simply a delightful distraction. I would love to hit out of one of those someday.  If they are expensive to maintain, who cares at $350/round?

PCCraig

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Re: GCA Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2011, 11:30:42 AM »
Dates are finally set for the trip.  I'll definately post pics when i get back.

May 21  |  Crooked Stick with Pete, Alice, and Ron Whitten

May 22  |  Pete Dye Course at French Lick w/ Pete Dye and Ron Whitten

If anyone had insight into either course, let me know.  

-Nick  

Nick:

That'll be an awesome trip.

To play two courses from two different eras with the man who designed them will be very informative. Please report back some interesting bits you learn about either course.

Crooked Stick is a hell of a golf course, IMO. It has a great flow and some awesome holes...the par-3's are the standouts, with #6 being all world. Other standouts are (forgive me if I'm a little off on the hole numbers) #13 (a cool par-4 version of #13 at Augusta), #15 a short par-5 with a horseshoe green that was inspired by a similar one at the University of Michigan, and a neat blind tee shot on #7 after you walk over a covered bridge. I posted (with little response) a thread almost two years ago on Crooked Stick which might be worth checking out or searching for as I think Tom Doak posted some thoughts on what the course was like before Pete ripped most of it up in the late 80's.

The Dye Course at French Lick is really pretty solid. I don't think it gets much attention on here and other places because it's pretty remote for most of the country. But once you're there you'll find the town/resort of French Lick is very nice and pretty land. The Dye Course is effectively built on a huge steep hill which give the course fantastic 360* views of the forests below. As John said above, I actually thought the Volcano bunkers were pretty cool from a "I've never seen that before" perspective. You'll find some narrow fairways, a ton of "infinity" greens, and near perfect conditions.

I'm assuming you picked up Joel Z's book on Dye to read up before your trip?

Enjoy and please report back.
H.P.S.

Niall Hay

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Re: GCA Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2011, 11:33:26 AM »
Dates are finally set for the trip.  I'll definately post pics when i get back.

May 21  |  Crooked Stick with Pete, Alice, and Ron Whitten

May 22  |  Pete Dye Course at French Lick w/ Pete Dye and Ron Whitten

If anyone had insight into either course, let me know.  

-Nick  
Congrats again Nick!
Awesome, you should drive over to Ohio and play The Golf Club as well.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2011, 01:02:42 PM »
It seems the Dye course doesn't show up yet on Google Earth. Or, is it located somewhere away from the resort?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2011, 01:06:44 PM »
It seems the Dye course doesn't show up yet on Google Earth. Or, is it located somewhere away from the resort?


Find the hotel/casino, go I think north over the nine hole course about a mile up the hill and you should find the Dye course.  It is rather new and we don't get updates around these parts all that often.  Keeps from having to move the stills.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2011, 01:19:42 PM »
It seems the Dye course doesn't show up yet on Google Earth. Or, is it located somewhere away from the resort?


Find the hotel/casino, go I think north over the nine hole course about a mile up the hill and you should find the Dye course.  It is rather new and we don't get updates around these parts all that often.  Keeps from having to move the stills.

I assume the "nine hole course" is really the Ross 18 holer. I suspect that the hill north of that is where the Dye course must be, but they don't have an update with it in it yet.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Nick Campanelli

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Re: GCA Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2011, 01:23:13 PM »
It seems the Dye course doesn't show up yet on Google Earth. Or, is it located somewhere away from the resort?


Coordinates for Google Earth....the course isn't built yet on Google Earth.  

38°34'20.67"N
86°38'19.05"W

I believe Bing has some shots while it was under construction, still poor quality though.
Landscape Architect  //  Golf Course Architect

PCCraig

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2011, 03:00:13 PM »
It seems the Dye course doesn't show up yet on Google Earth. Or, is it located somewhere away from the resort?


Find the hotel/casino, go I think north over the nine hole course about a mile up the hill and you should find the Dye course.  It is rather new and we don't get updates around these parts all that often.  Keeps from having to move the stills.

I assume the "nine hole course" is really the Ross 18 holer. I suspect that the hill north of that is where the Dye course must be, but they don't have an update with it in it yet.


No, the Ross course is a couple miles west of the hotels. Follow the main road west and you're notice the bunkering and open routing. The 9 holer used to be 18 before the casino was built, I think it is/was a Bendalow? The Dye Course is just north of West Baden Springs.
H.P.S.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2011, 03:03:29 PM »
It seems the Dye course doesn't show up yet on Google Earth. Or, is it located somewhere away from the resort?


Find the hotel/casino, go I think north over the nine hole course about a mile up the hill and you should find the Dye course.  It is rather new and we don't get updates around these parts all that often.  Keeps from having to move the stills.

I assume the "nine hole course" is really the Ross 18 holer. I suspect that the hill north of that is where the Dye course must be, but they don't have an update with it in it yet.


No, the Ross course is a couple miles west of the hotels. Follow the main road west and you're notice the bunkering and open routing. The 9 holer used to be 18 before the casino was built, I think it is/was a Bendalow? The Dye Course is just north of West Baden Springs.

Thanks Pat. I was having trouble believing the course by the hotel was a Ross without even zooming in. I guess Google Earth isn't even showing the casino.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike Hendren

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2011, 11:02:37 AM »
Why does this...



remind me of this...



or this...



Reminds me that I need to get back up there and play Ross' Hill Course.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Nick Campanelli

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Re: GD Dream Hole Competition - Dates Set
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2011, 08:52:55 PM »
It seems the Dye course doesn't show up yet on Google Earth. Or, is it located somewhere away from the resort?


Garland, I found the Dye Course at French Lick.  Open the historic imagery option with Google Earth (View-->Historic Imagery), and go back to October 4, 2008.  Then zoom into the fields just north of French Lick's town center.  For some reason the old aerial shows the routing, but the current doesn't.....glitch with Google???
Landscape Architect  //  Golf Course Architect

Nick Campanelli

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Pete Dye / Golf Digest Trip - Pictures to Come
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2011, 03:38:34 PM »
Just got back this morning from Indiana!  

Three days with Pete & Alice Dye, hosted by Ron Whitten and Golf Digest.  I've got about 900 pictures to go through and will post as i get them together.  The three of us played Crooked Stick and Pete's new monster at French Lick.  We also walked Woodland CC in Carmel, IN with Pete (he considers this to be one of his favorite routings).  It was an incredible weekend with three great people.  I am grateful to the three of them for their willingness to share their time and ideas with my wife and I.      

For those of you that were following this thread earlier, Pete has no clue where he got the idea for the "ant hill" bunkers between holes 2 & 3 at French Lick.  In his words..."there were piles of dirt out there so we left them."  Typical Pete and typical answer to many of my questions.  

P.S.  Pete, 85 years old, shot his age at Crooked Stick on Saturday and didn't miss a fairway.  




Landscape Architect  //  Golf Course Architect

PCCraig

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Re: Pete Dye / Golf Digest Trip - Pictures to Come
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2011, 03:51:07 PM »
Just got back this morning from Indiana!  

Three days with Pete & Alice Dye, hosted by Ron Whitten and Golf Digest.  I've got about 900 pictures to go through and will post as i get them together.  The three of us played Crooked Stick and Pete's new monster at French Lick.  We also walked Woodland CC in Carmel, IN with Pete (he considers this to be one of his favorite routings).  It was an incredible weekend with three great people.  I am grateful to the three of them for their willingness to share their time and ideas with my wife and I.      

For those of you that were following this thread earlier, Pete has no clue where he got the idea for the "ant hill" bunkers between holes 2 & 3 at French Lick.  In his words..."there were piles of dirt out there so we left them."  Typical Pete and typical answer to many of my questions.  

P.S.  Pete, 85 years old, shot his age at Crooked Stick on Saturday and didn't miss a fairway.  


Nick,

Sounds like a great weekend...Congrats again!

What were your initial reactions to Crooked Stick and French Lick?

What about Woodland CC's routing makes it one of his favorites?
H.P.S.

Nick Campanelli

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Pete Dye / Golf Digest Trip - Pictures to Come
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2011, 04:41:12 PM »
Crooked Stick  
I was blown away by the routing and contouring given the site was initially extremely flat.  There are many techniques used by Pete there that I probably would not have picked up on without him pointing them out....to me, that is a key sign of sound design.  The course sits within a large residential development, but you never feel as if the homes are encroaching on the course.  Lakes, vegetation, and mounding are used to create naturalized buffers that keep homes within view, but far enough away that they do not distract play.  

Contouring in the fairway was cleverly thought out to lengthen holes by reducing roll.  Almost every hole at Crooked Stick has a fairway that slopes back to the tee.  Simple, but smart design, although new technology allows players to carry many of these slopes with ease (i.e. the John Daly effect).  

Many of the greens appear to be raised, when in reality are level and often below the fairway.  Pete clears out the front and sides for a number greens around CS to create the illusion that the green is elevated.  Judging distance on the approach becomes tricky in some instances.  These are the first few ideas that stand out to me, but there are many more that i took away from the round.                    

French Lick
Location, location, location.  Can you beat the views from this property without an ocean in site???  Incredible all around, particularly on the back nine.  Although extremely long on the card, Pete designed this course course with the average golfer in mind.  The corridors are narrow intentionally, but the rough is kept short.  Pete's theory was that the average player strikes the ball better from light rough rather than a tight lie on well conditioned fairways.  If your looking at an aerial or have played there, you'll notice many of the bunkers look like they are floating in the rough, considerably distant from the fairway...this was done intentionally for players that bomb it but miss their target considerably left of right.  He wanted to leave room on either side of the fairway for the average player to recover.  When, not if, a major comes here, they simply have to grow the rough out to make this course 18 holes of hell.  There's one problem with that theory....the average golfer cant afford to play there at $350/person.  We were the only ones there Sunday morning.  Side note....12,000 people can fit on the hill behind 18 green.  That should make a loud finish come Sunday of a future PGA Championship.  

Also, The one routing quirk everyone in the group brought up (not in front of Pete) is that all the trouble is left on this course.  Later in the round Pete addressed this subject on his own, saying "most good players miss it left."  Sorry lefties, i dont think he had you in mind with this routing.

Pete's favorite hole on the course...No. 12.  Why?  "The man upstairs designed this one.  All I did was stick a flag on one end, and a tee box on the other."  On the contrary, No. 14 sits on top of 140' of fill.  A small revine was literally filled in to support the eastern end of the course.  While many would argue the need to do this, i think we can all agree its an engineering miracle that that dirt doesnt move.

Woodland CC
I would venture to say Pete mentioned this course as one of his favorites for more sentimental reasons than anything.  The course was originally laid out by Bill Diddell in 1952.  Pete was mentored by Bill in the early part of his career, particularly when he was looking to begins plans on Crooked Stick.  I would bet Pete mentioned Bill's name about 200 times during the tour.  Land at the NE corner of the property was sold in 2000 for a retail development.  Pete was brought in to re route nearly the entire course as 7 holes were lost in the land sale.  The only hole that remains from Diddell's routing is the current 17th, but Pete still refers to this course as Bill's.  The new routing is pretty impressive, and uses many of the original course's contouring although the corridors have been altered dramatically.  I was in the cart with Pete as we drove around the course.  I can answer questions about particular holes if needed.          
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 04:43:20 PM by Nick Campanelli »
Landscape Architect  //  Golf Course Architect

Garland Bayley

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #48 on: May 24, 2011, 06:40:25 PM »
Is Bill's cabin still on the Woodland course, or was that part of what was sold. My impression was that Bill did Woodland without any or many bunkers. Did Pete say anything about bunkering the course. My understanding is that Bill was really smart. Did Pete mention that. You mention Pete shooting his age. I understand Bill Diddel may hold the record for shooting his age.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Nick Campanelli

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Re: Congratulations to GCAer Nick Campanelli
« Reply #49 on: May 24, 2011, 07:32:09 PM »
Is Bill's cabin still on the Woodland course, or was that part of what was sold. My impression was that Bill did Woodland without any or many bunkers. Did Pete say anything about bunkering the course. My understanding is that Bill was really smart. Did Pete mention that. You mention Pete shooting his age. I understand Bill Diddel may hold the record for shooting his age.


Bill's cabin used to be behind the current 6th championship tee.  It was taken down about five years ago.  Its now open land adjacent to another house.  The guy living there bought the plot of land and had the house taken down....great guy.  Pete did not mention anything regarding Bill's bunkering.  He did, however, spend the two hours complaining about Wadsworth Construction's bunkering on the course....the faces weren't high enough.  Pete is in the process of redoing them all.  Bill holds the record for shooting his age....according to Pete, it close to 3,000.   I dont know the exact numbers.

-Nick
Landscape Architect  //  Golf Course Architect

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