And what do we think of Royal Lytham?

[George Pazin]

Me think that Lytham is as good as it was when I first played it 37 years ago, and it was very good then.  The Ladies Open was a lesson in how well even second tier (not for long) ladies can golf their ball much better than a VERY small number of the +/-1500 stalwarts on this forum.


I also think that if the R&A puts Lytham on hold for THE open due to its shortness and quirk it is not doing what it should be doing vis a vis the game of golf.


As Chairman Mao said, let a thousand flowers bloom.  Surely there are at least 1000 golf courses in the world capable of holding a major for either men or women.  Or is it that the powers that be not actually have the balls to give us interesting golf rather than the pedestrian wannabies that they spoon feed us with.


How about the next open being played at Painswick.... ?


rfg

I would prefer Prestwick, if only so I could see it on the telly...


I'd be flat out shocked if the number of golfers in this forum who could hang with even the second tier ladies numbers anywhere above 1 or 2. Not that that means much of anything.


I thought Lytham looked pretty damn compelling on TV. But then, I thought the same of Carnoustie, and Troon, and many others that are routinely dismissed on here. I didn't really think that of Birkdale or Hoylake or Turnberry, but it's been awhile, so that could just be faulty memory. I'm really looking forward to seeing Portrush next year and Sandwich again in 2020. For those of us who can't really travel, HDTV is the next best thing.

[Ryan Coles]

I think Lytham is the sort of course where you’d say if it wasn’t on the Open rota, lots would never have heard of or played it.


However if it was in Wales or the South West people would think it was the best thing since sliced bread.


I agree with Jon’s assessment, albeit I found the start a bit underwhelming.

[Mark_Fine]

Lytham is “tough but fair" Just kidding of course for those who saw that other thread!  I think it is a great inland links.  First time I played there I was in the clubhouse playing snooker and enjoying a pint waiting for our time to tee off.  The wind started howling and it was raining sideways and I said to my playing partner, “Looks like severe weather has come in.  Should we rack them up again and grab another pint”?  He said, “Nope, we need to get ready, we are teeing off soon”      Played two rounds that day in four different kinds of weather and played it several times since.  I love it!  It is a shotmakers course requiring you to work the golf ball both ways.  There are a number of aerial holes/shots required for a links course but most demand run up shots and control of your golf ball once it gets on the ground.  It is heavily bunkered (close to if not more than 150 on the layout) with lots of deep pot bunkers and heavy gorse.  Make your score on the front nine (not atypical of out and back links courses) because the back nine is challenging. The finishing holes are exceptional and the 18th with its echelon fairway bunkering is one of the best in British Open rota.     

[MCirba]

My lord, the turn of 8, 9, and 10 is worth a visit alone.

[ward peyronnin]

Guys
I appreciate your perspectives and will certainly try to find another chance to actually play this course altho a Walker Cup is the next best thing) and maybe that will be in 2019 when it returns to Hoylake. I will reserve any further assessment until i do. Altho I still will never care for how 18 presents itself; looks like you are finishing in a rental tract home back yard to me.

I am sure I am influenced by the disaster which was the USA performance there in 2015 due in no small part to the worst bit of Captaincy I have witnessed thru many Cups. And also by the struggles of the most dominating player on the planet then Dechambeau. Even then we knew he was a stickler for precision. He repeatedly came to rest in fairway bunkers off the tee and either he just had a poor handle on links golf or his local caddie was feeding him yardages off the meters scale but enough said.
But again thanks for the informed responses

[Bill Gayne]

As others have said visiting Lytham and staying in the Dormie House is a great golf travel experience. The clubhouse like most Open rota clubhouses is really a museum. It's a club with a friendly membership and great traditions. I love the silver shrimp cigar lighter from the Oxford and Cambridge Golfing Society.

The course is a true links and for my three rounds it played as one. [/size]There really is some great golf in the far corner of the property in holes seven through thirteen. The shortfall for me at Lytham is that the first six holes and sixteen and seventeen aren't at the same very high level. [size=78%]

[/size]If you get the opportunity to experience Lytham don't hesitate.[size=78%]

[Jon Wiggett]

I am somewhat flummoxed by some of the comments on here.


Ward,

'rental tract home back yard

' What does that mean???


Bill,


2-4 are all quality par 4s requiring a good look at the pin position when still on the tee in order to place the tee shot correctly for any chance of a birdie. The 4th is probably pick of the bunch of these three. The fifth is an top draw par 3 with a myriad of great pin locations on a subtly contoured putting surface. Likewise the 16 and 17 are both very good par 4s the equal of any other on the course.


It is my opinion that were these holes surrounded by the same scale of dunes at the far end of the course and the railway track with the house beyond were to be replaced by the beach and ocean people would rave about it being a top 3 UK course even though it had not altered. Too many people can't seem to see beyond the nips, tucks and Botox in order to realise the true beauty of character that makes greatness

[Sean_A]

Too many people can't seem to see beyond the nips, tucks and Botox in order to realise the true beauty of character that makes greatness

...or, perhaps some may feel the course has at least twice as many bunkers than it needs, thus knocking character out of the site.

Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Too many people can't seem to see beyond the nips, tucks and Botox in order to realise the true beauty of character that makes greatness

...or, perhaps some may feel the course has at least twice as many bunkers than it needs, thus knocking character out of the site.

Ciao

Sean,


completely agree that it could lose quite a few bunkers with no loss to the playing of the course though I do not think the excess is so detrimental but rather not necessary.

[Mark_Fine]

Sean,
In Lytham's case, I don't think the "excess" bunkering is the issue.  They are actually well done (Muirfield has almost as many and no one complains about the 150 or so on that course).  If Lytham get discounted it might be because it is an inland links and people hold that against it.  I really like the golf course (it has more character than for example Royal Troon which lies right along the water).  And I think 16 and 17 are very good holes?  I am surprised at Bill's comments    16 is a shortish but demanding par four and 17 can be a beast but requires distance and precision on both the tee shot and approach.  Bobby Jones played one of his greatest shots on the 17th to win the 1926 Open.  It is a great finish.
Mark

[Niall C]

I had the pleasure of playing the course over two days last weekend, staying in the Dormie House overnight. I agree totally with all the positive comments regarding the clubhouse, Dormie, the members and the staff.

With regards the course, the bunkers are obviously the main talking point. There is certainly an awful lot although if they took a more minimalist approach on the long par 5 7th (line of bunkers up each side of the fairway like landing lights on a runway), the 11th, 13th, 14th and perhaps the left side of the 17th, and greatly reduced the number leaving only the odd bunker to dictate play it would work wonders for the overall feel of the course IMO. You could probably add the 18th to that list. Playing into a wind brought all the front bunkers into play making me wonder whether there was any grass out there that I could land on.

The other thing about the bunkers, particularly the fairway bunkers is that their functional qualities are far greater than their aesthetic ones. Not necessarily a criticism but more an observation.

However the best thing about the course for me was the green complexes which I thought were outstanding on some holes, in particular the par 3's. The 5th and the 9th are as a good as I've played on an Open rota course. And some of the other greens were nicely angled lending themselves to a more strategic bunkering scheme.

Overall I enjoyed the course but for some reason I wouldn't necessarily hurry back and I'm not sure why 

I also noted in the strokesaver that Colt redesigned the course in the 1920's prior to the Open several years later. Presumably the greens are largely his and the general bunkering scheme was a later addition to toughen up the course ?

Niall

[Mark Saltzman]

Niall, like you, I thoroughly enjoyed the course but have no pressing urge to go back. Ditto Birkdale and Royal Liverpool. Formby, on the other hand, I could play everyday and can’t wait to play again!

[Niall C]

Mark

I haven’t played Birkdale or Hoylake but I have played Formby. As much as I enjoyed it, and the ladies course next door, I wouldn’t rush back there either. That said, I’m not sure what course would necessarily make me rush to go back.

Is it better than Lytham and do I prefer it to there is perhaps the more relevant question. I’m honestly not sure I can say after one play of each several years apart though I’d be happy to return to either.

Niall

[Mark Pearce]

It's probably sacrilege to say so here but, having played Formby and Lytham on consecutive days, and just once each, I'd play Lytham over Formby without thinking twice, given the chance to return to either.

[Niall C]

I doubt it’s sacrilege but knowing this groups penchant for turning orthodoxy on its head then maybe you’re right. Either way you want to be on form at Lytham as one thing Formby has over Lytham is that if you are off your game your recovery shots offer more variety ie. playing out of bunker, rough, heather, scrub as opposed to what you get at Lytham which is bunker, bunker, bunker and bunker (and sometimes the same bunker !).

Niall

[Sean_A]

Sean,
In Lytham's case, I don't think the "excess" bunkering is the issue.  They are actually well done (Muirfield has almost as many and no one complains about the 150 or so on that course).  If Lytham get discounted it might be because it is an inland links and people hold that against it.  I really like the golf course (it has more character than for example Royal Troon which lies right along the water).  And I think 16 and 17 are very good holes?  I am surprised at Bill's comments    16 is a shortish but demanding par four and 17 can be a beast but requires distance and precision on both the tee shot and approach.  Bobby Jones played one of his greatest shots on the 17th to win the 1926 Open.  It is a great finish.
Mark

Mark

What then is the issue?

I am not a fan of Muirfield, but I don't think Lytham's bunker scheme is in the same league.  Lytham's tend to be on the wings, creating bowling alley scenarios.  Muirfield's, while far too many given the penal and abundant rough, are much more placed to emphasize angles or in the middle of fairways. Still, there are plenty of wing bunkers which are not really necessary to create interest, especially given the wonderful circular routing.

I will have to go back to Lytham one day, but I am not in a rush.

Ciao 

[MikeJones]

As live around 20 miles away from Lytham I have fortunately managed to play it more than most.


The second and third tee shots provide a real test of character early on as bailing out away from the railway may not be such a great option as bunkers and deep rough wait to the left. The wind as with any links course makes a huge difference and the back 9 can be truly brutal into a strong wind as you are forced to take on the well positioned bunkers.


I've found it a difficult course to club off the tee to take bunkers out of play which is a normal strategy on Links courses as the pot bunkers are virtually a one shot penalty. A prime example of that is the 18th hole with it's two sets of diagonal bunkers causing mayhem if a tournament is on the line. If you have to make par you simply can't fudge it.

[Niall C]

Mike

That's a very good point about the drives at the second and third. Although can't say I saw the diagonals you referred to on the 18th. It just looked like a mass of bunkers to me.

Niall

ps. par 4 both days on 18 

[MikeJones]

Mike

That's a very good point about the drives at the second and third. Although can't say I saw the diagonals you referred to on the 18th. It just looked like a mass of bunkers to me.

Niall

ps. par 4 both days on 18 

Niall, if you look on google earth you can see the way the bunkers are laid out on 18. There are two distinct rows of bunkers although from the tee what you see is a random mass of bunkers they are anything but. The reason they are so interesting to me is that laying up short of them is not really an option as you would be so far back and barely clearing the rough from the tee and the right bunker in the first set of diagonals pretty much overlaps distance wise with the left bunker on the second set.


With a probable lost ball or penalty shot looming down the right of the hole that means having to take on at least some of the bunkers with both directional and distance control.


Also as a side note, on many of the holes the bunkering seems be along the side of the holes but on closer inspection especially from championship tees, the angles to the fairway are often offset which makes life a lot more interesting as all of a sudden a host of choices are presented to the golfer on line and distance.

[Niall C]

Mike

I think you hit the nail on the head there when you referred to what you can see from the tee. No doubt repeated play would make it clearer (same for 16th and 17th) however even then it seems to me you’d need a degree in trigonometry to work it out.

And I say that as someone who loves diagonal hazards. As you note about the championship tees, as you get with a lot of new longer tees which can’t go straight back, the angle suddenly makes it imperative to get the length AND the line.

Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Been quite a while but I liked Latham. Make your score on the way out and hang on as you come in as I recall.
Some Clubs, such as Lytham, are high quality in terms of course, clubhouse etc and some also have a special ‘aura’ about them. Difficult to put ‘aura’ into golfing words though but somehow Lytham kind of lacks it despite the splendid course and clubhouse etc. Just saying.
Atb