And what do we think of Royal Lytham?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Recent posts on Troon and Sandwich remind me that Royal Lytham and St Annes is rarely discussed here. Although I've attended all the Opens played there since 1988 I haven't played it myself since 1983. I thought that it was by far the hardest of the Open Championship courses I had encountered up to then. My feeling at the time was that it was hard because of the inordinate number of bunkers and that it was very much more target golf than Hoylake or Birkdale, St Andrews or Troon.

I'm sure you'll tell me I'm wrong and that Lytham is highly strategic. What do you think?

[David_Tepper]

Mark -

My guess would be that Lytham (which I played once in 1985) gets overlooked/underrated because it is inland and pretty much surrounded by housing (and the rail track on one side). It does not sit on the sea like Hoylake (which I played on the same trip) or have the big dunes like Birkdale (ditto).

No matter how hard we try, it is very hard (for me at least) to separate the surroundings of a golf course from the course itself in forming an impression of a course.

One thing I do recall about Lytham was seeing several pheasants on the course, which was quite a surprise given its relatively "urban" setting.

DT   

[Philippe Binette]

My kind of course, not about nice views... it's about golf there.

I only walked it but it's probably the course I've seen that I most want to play... feels like fun day in day out.

Great variety of length and difficulty in the par 4s
Solid set of par 3s

It's about control and precision, but I could think somebody could turn a great score with an agressive strategy... (would need a bit of luck and a couple of great recovery to do so)
Probably the shortest course to host majors from now on but it will still resist to scoring very well.

[Gary Slatter]

My two rounds were 30 years apart (1969 and 99) and I enjoyed the challenge both times.

Loved the design, routing and bunkering.  In 1969 there was a sign near the Domie House  "no japanese golfers".

[Jim Eder]

Most people I talk to are not fans of Lytham for the reasons you bring up. The setting, the lack of strategic holes. I actually like Lytham a lot and though it is not the most strategic, one does have to think their way around in order to play well. I don't think it is brutally difficult at all. I really like the bunkers, I love the finish especially 17. I like 8 and 9 and 12. 16 for the history of Seve. 2 and 3 are just nice tough holes. I could go on and on. Just great, solid, tough golf. Would I rather play Lytham than Hoylake? Probably not. Sunningdale? Probably not. But I can't wait to go back to Lytham as I really do find it wonderful and the history is special. In my opinion the club is special, the members are great. I think it is underrated.

[Tony_Muldoon]

My only declared ambition in golf is to play ALL the Open courses.

Lytham, Troon and Carnoustie to go.

I'm in the area next June but with a VAT increase I will have to find the best part of £160 for a round - might see if I can do the dormie option - and there's no way I'd contemplate it if it wasn’t going to dominate my golf viewing the year after.

Anyone know about the upcoming changes...Yawn.

http://www.royallytham.org/prices.html

[Jeff_Mingay]

I believe it was Jim Murray - golf writer for the LA Times, for more than 30 years - who, upon seeing Lytham for the first time, said the course reminded him of a vacant lot in Cleveland.

What an attraction; seriously   

[Tom_Doak]

I am a fan of Royal Lytham.  I find the setting charming and I think the overall quality of 18 holes is superior to that of Royal Birkdale or Royal Liverpool or Royal Troon or Carnoustie, although it does not have a hole like the Postage Stamp which puts it on people's bucket lists.  As Philippe said, it's all about the golf.

[Andrew Summerell]

I'm a big fan of RL as well & I actually don't mind the surroundings as I feel the course reflects its setting. There is a working class/industrial feel to the surrounds, which I feel in the nature of the course. Nothing flash, but everything solid.

[Mike Policano]

Mark, how's it going? Coming to the states next year? I played Lytham St. Anne's this summer and I really enjoyed it. We had the course to ourselves because England was playing Germany in the World Cup at the same time.

Furthermore, the Red Arrows (UK version of the Blue Angels) were returning to their nearby base at Blackpool? and they performed a five minute show almost over the course. It was like a private show.  I thought the par 3's were very good. The par 4's were very interesting and had a lot of variety. The par 5 seventh? had a great greensite.

Up in that neck of the woods, I had it Birkdale, Lytham, Liverpool.

Cheers   

[Sean_A]

For sure Lytham is a good course, but not one which holds my attention.  Any course which needs that number of bunkers to create the interest, variety or whatever one wants to call it, is of little interest to me. 

Ciao

[Jim McCann]

Playing Royal Lytham & St Annes a couple of years ago was one of the best golfing experiences I have ever had, mainly because our party fronted up the evening before to stay in the Dormy House, having dinner in the clubhouse that evening and breakfast next morning. It loses a bit of interest for a few holes in the middle of the back nine but overall the course is MILES better than Hoylake along the coast. 

[Wayne_Kozun]

Is Royal Lytham a links course?  There is a housing subdivision between the course and the sea and from Google Maps it looks like it is at least 0.5km from the course to the beach.  It looks like it links one housing subdivision to another, rather than linking the sea/beach to the land.  Or has the coastline changed in the last 100 years and the course was originally adjacent to the sea?


Putthing this in an East Lothian context, it would be as if the golf course was on the inland side of the A198 in places like Gullane or North Berwick.



Here is a photo - an aerial from yesterday's Women's Open Championship (hopefully the photo works):

[Duncan Cheslett]

There is no doubt that Royal Lytham is a links course. Very often the best golfing land on an area of linksland is not nearest the sea, but set back a few hundred yards. This is where Royal Lytham was routed 120 years ago.


The housing to the seaward side of the course has been built subsequently - on the same linksland.


Royal Lytham & St Annes Golf Club - Google Maps by Duncan Cheslett, on Flickr

[Niall C]

Even though Mark posed the question some 8 years ago it's still very relevant for me as I'll be paying it my first visit this weekend when I'll be having a couple of rounds. I think I'm right in saying there are significantly fewer bunkers now than when Mark posted (160 odd compared to just over 200) but should still be more than a challenge for me.

Niall

[Wayne_Kozun]

Thanks Duncan.  How low lying is the housing - it seems to me like it could be at risk with only minor increases in sea levels.

[ward peyronnin]

Gents
I walked the Walker Cup there. I cannot generate much love for the course.
You begin with an insipid, but very long par threeThe almost  uni-dimensional overwhelmingly strategic element is bunkers ( and clusters of bunkers). The other is the longest continuous out of bounds line I recall that is the RR track all the way out.The topo has only enough variation toward the inward turn mostly to keep some interest goingThe final few finishing holes are dead flat  and uninspiring and the last green lays up pretty dead against a blank brick two sotry wall of the clubhouse ( i think you could bank a shot back off it)
There are some very good green sites.What am I missing?

[Pete Lavallee]

Ward,

I stayed and played there just before they closed the course 2 weeks before the Walker Cup. I loved the place! As you well noted you  MUST stay out of the fairway bunkers; they are a sure dropped shot. But that task is achievable; in fact plotting how to stay out of them is very fun. Greenside bunkers are not as tough as they looked, yesterdays leaders got up and down from the quite easily. 17 is a great penultimate hole with the dune obscuring the green unless you are in the far right hand side of the fairway. I'm with Doak who also likes the 18 since if you hit a good drive a birdie is possible, I know, I made one in my last of two rounds there. It has good long and short par 4's. I suspect its a place you can only fall in love with from inside the ropes.

Around the 12th hole my wife said:  isn't it amazing I've missed all the bunkers so far! Sure enough she landed in 5 for the remaining 6 holes. The next day I asked a 60 year old member if he ever played a round without going in a bunker? After a moments thought he replied NO!

[Thomas Dai]

Gets tougher and tougher as the round goes on.
Not particularly photogenic. Perhaps this is one reason that it gets less love than some other venues where The Open is held.
atb

[Mark Pearce]

My favourite of the Lancashire Open venues,  rather like Troon, much better golf than eye candy.

[MCirba]

I love Lytham.


Love.

[Jon Wiggett]

Me too. I have a lot of time for Lytham. Very good set of par 3s. Excellent rhythm. Very good run in from the 14th onward and an fabulous finishing hole with the clubhouse very much in play.


Ward,


OOB? then what about TOC, Carnoustie, Hoylake, Troon.....
There might not be the big dunes but again which other Open venue has that except Birkdale. Indeed I would say the movement in the fairway is similar to most except St. Georges and TOC. What are you missing? Probably a couple of rounds actually playing the course instead of just looking.

[jeffwarne]

How is a course that requires formulating a strategy to avoid bunkers not "strategic"?

[Richard Fisher]

Funnily enough my response to Lytham from likewise walking round during the 2015 Walker Cup (and it may have been influenced by the outcome!) was very positive indeed: having watched only one round of an Open there previously, and never having played the course (despite having close family, and a flat, in Lytham), I was really impressed by the variety of the challenge, the endless points at which the player had to think hard, and the overall flow. Unlike Jim McCann I emphatically don't think from this experience that Lytham is miles better than Hoylake - indeed I would still go for RLGC, of the two - but it is a cracking golf course and, importantly, forces the good golfer to hit a real mixture of different types of shots, and to shape the ball properly, in order to score well. So, to answer the question posed, a great deal.

[Rich Goodale]

Me think that Lytham is as good as it was when I first played it 37 years ago, and it was very good then.  The Ladies Open was a lesson in how well even second tier (not for long) ladies can golf their ball much better than a VERY small number of the +/-1500 stalwarts on this forum.


I also think that if the R&A puts Lytham on hold for THE open due to its shortness and quirk it is not doing what it should be doing vis a vis the game of golf.


As Chairman Mao said, let a thousand flowers bloom.  Surely there are at least 1000 golf courses in the world capable of holding a major for either men or women.  Or is it that the powers that be not actually have the balls to give us interesting golf rather than the pedestrian wannabies that they spoon feed us with.


How about the next open being played at Painswick....?


rfg