Distance marker introduction

[Brett_Morrissy]

I noted what looked like distance markers posts in the centre of the FW's in some B&W's of Cypress Point the other day, and it appeared as though the course were open for general play.

Have distance markers always been a part of golf courses in America, GB&I and other parts?

Is the trend increasing or decreasing with GPS, et al?

BM

[Ronald Montesano]

I have noticed no decrease of distance markers during the age of GPS and Range finders...one man's observation.

[Brett_Morrissy]

are architects briefed to include them in their layouts?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Distance markers only started to be included in GB&I courses in the mid-80's...

...Unfortunately, we've very short memories...

[Jeff_Brauer]

Brett,

I can tell you that I have never (in 33 years as a gca) had any involvement with designing or adding distance markers.  That is usually a function of the owner/managment group to do after construction but before opening.

Interesting that CP had the 150 yard markers, apparently.  I know that since I have been playing golf (1967 start) some form of yardage markers were common.   Usually the little bush. 

At Medinah, I recall they had a yardage book that referenced different trees.  There were so many, I sometimes wasn't sure which one the book was referring to, but it was my first round of golf! 

Some courses had the barber poles at 150, and some had three markers - red, white, blue (and sometimes yellow) for 100-150-200-250 out.

Other courses had the metal plates instead of poles, but the poles are more visible and were favored (along with the bushes). In the 80's, a company made a rubberized plate with small bump so those could be seen from distance.

Some clubs added colored road bumps (city titties, as we call them in Texas) in the path, color coded.  Others painted stripes in the paths, same color code as the poles and plates.

Also in the 80's, was the first time I saw the each sprinkler marked, sometimes the long ones (250 out) said something humorous like "No Way!".  With the advent of the Pelz technique, I am surprised more courses don't have the markers less than 100 yards out marked for distance control, perhaps even the ones around the green!

As your post suggests, I don't think the advent of yardage marking started just when I started playing golf!  It would be interesting to flesh out some of the details.

[Tim Martin]

Brett,

I can tell you that I have never (in 33 years as a gca) had any involvement with designing or adding distance markers.  That is usually a function of the owner/managment group to do after construction but before opening.

Interesting that CP had the 150 yard markers, apparently.  I know that since I have been playing golf (1967 start) some form of yardage markers were common.   Usually the little bush. 

At Medinah, I recall they had a yardage book that referenced different trees.  There were so many, I sometimes wasn't sure which one the book was referring to, but it was my first round of golf! 

Some courses had the barber poles at 150, and some had three markers - red, white, blue (and sometimes yellow) for 100-150-200-250 out.

Other courses had the metal plates instead of poles, but the poles are more visible and were favored (along with the bushes). In the 80's, a company made a rubberized plate with small bump so those could be seen from distance.

Some clubs added colored road bumps (city titties, as we call them in Texas) in the path, color coded.  Others painted stripes in the paths, same color code as the poles and plates.

Also in the 80's, was the first time I saw the each sprinkler marked, sometimes the long ones (250 out) said something humorous like "No Way!".  With the advent of the Pelz technique, I am surprised more courses don't have the markers less than 100 yards out marked for distance control, perhaps even the ones around the green!

As your post suggests, I don't think the advent of yardage marking started just when I started playing golf!  It would be interesting to flesh out some of the details.

I like the barber poles at 150. CC of Farmington which is a great old Dev Emmet has a plate on the the par 5 ninth hole about 275 out that says"Just hit it".

[Jeff_Brauer]

I would seriously like to know of early examples of, and means to, mark yardage in the US.  The fact that CPoint - presumably with caddies and walking as a private club, had such markers perhaps from the beginning.

Some of the stuff some here complain about probably has a longer history than we really know.  To me, its natural to want to know the distance to the hole. Now, I don't need to know it to the flag, but I can see why better players want to know front edge, side and back edge distances to the pin, too.

[Joe Bausch]

Where I grew up in southern Indiana it seemed many, if not most, of the courses I played (late 70's/early 80's) had a pair of 150 bushes.  That would not be too popular with most here on GCA, I think.  ;-)

Earlier this summer I played a local public course outside of Philly that employed bushes, and it really was a blast from the past.  I'm not desiring them to come back, but they do make it pretty easy to guess a yardage.



Bonus points if you recognize the course and the hole!   

[astavrides]

.

[RSLivingston_III]

I used to have an ad for 'yardage discs' for sale from some retailer in one of the golden age magazines. Unfortunately I lost it from a hard drive crash and have yet to re-find it.
If I remember correctly it was one item listed amongst others as 'golf course furniture'. I am fairly sure it was the 1920's.

[Matthew Rose]

My home muni introduced a small bush (like the photo) in the late 80s. They were mostly at 150 yards, but on three of the shorter par fours, they were at 100. The only way to know this was looking at the scorecard and acquiring the local knowledge. So, as you might expect, out of towners were often confused.

A couple years later they replaced these with stakes... what was always notable about that was they left the bushes up for a year or two, and sometimes there might be as much as a 5-10 yard discrepancy between them. Obviously they had re-measured whenever they'd brought the stakes in.

One of the more peculiar things this course did was have flagsticks in the middle of the fairway on holes with sharp doglegs, placed at the middle of the turn point. They were checkerboard, while the flags at the green had the hole numbers sewn into them. A few years later they were taken out, but I always remember this because I've never seen it done anywhere else.

[Tim Martin]

I like the barber poles at 150. CC of Farmington which is a great old Dev Emmet has a plate on the the par 5 ninth hole about 275 out that says"Just hit it".

thats one that always bothers me.  i can't hit it that far, but I sure want to know how far to lay up to and to avoid bunkers etc.  if they have enough energy to write their little joke on the sprinkler head, they have enough energy to write the correct yardage on it.  but the lowest common denominator (not picking on tim here) thinks it is hilarious.  granted, i'm more anal and serious on the course than 99+% of golfers.

Advice: Find the next marked sprinkler head and walk it back. After you putt out go directly to the halfway house that sits behind 10 tee and grab a handful of beers. If something like that pisses you off you are playing the wrong game.

[Josh Smith]

Not certain, but I want to say old photos I've seen of Cypress have old impact style sprinklers sticking up in the air.  They may only resemble yardage markers.  Cypress has zero yardage marked to date if memory serves. 

Josh

[Tom Yost]

I like the barber poles at 150. CC of Farmington which is a great old Dev Emmet has a plate on the the par 5 ninth hole about 275 out that says"Just hit it".

thats one that always bothers me.  i can't hit it that far, but I sure want to know how far to lay up to and to avoid bunkers etc.  if they have enough energy to write their little joke on the sprinkler head, they have enough energy to write the correct yardage on it.  but the lowest common denominator (not picking on tim here) thinks it is hilarious.  granted, i'm more anal and serious on the course than 99+% of golfers.

Alex:   Just hit it.

[Kris Shreiner]

I concur with Josh. Unless it is a rather recent development, there are no yardage markers on Cypress Point.

[Joel Zuckerman]

On Ran's advice, I played the Cal Club of SF a few months back...early on a Monday by myself.

Thoroughly enjoyed the layout, but was flummoxed by the lack of markers everywhere.  The pro gave me a yardage book which helped a small bit, but truthfully, it was hard to tell if the tree being referenced in the book was corresponding to 185 or 165 yds, or if the bunker in reference was supposed to be 115 or 100 yds.  I did lots of head-scratching and ciphering, would pull a club eventually, and come up...short!  Would have played 3-5 shots better had there been sprinkler heads around to accurately gauge distances..

[Dan Herrmann]

I actually think barber poles on a private course open for an outing is a great idea.  You can take them down Monday night, but they serve to make the play easier for our Monday guests.

[Brett_Morrissy]

I have reviewed the old photographs of Cypress, they are indeed irrigation risers that I noticed, the image that threw me did not appear to have any attachments to the post.

Mystery solved!

[Jeff_Brauer]

Shivas,

Yeah, sure you can see the other side of the bushell argument, but not in politics?

Just kidding.....

Hey, do your prefer your distance markers to the right or the far right?

Still kidding.....

I could go on all day, but seriously, does anyone have the history of when these things started showing up en masse on golf courses?  I know they were fairly common in the 1960's in bush and barber pole form, as I noted before.  Did the come on about as fast as caddie programs disappeared?

Also, while it was always considered bad form to kick your twelve year old caddie for giving you wrong clubs and yardage, was it considered bad form to kick a little yew bush?

Still kidding.....

[James Bennett]

IIRC, the caddies at CPC have a special book which gives the distances from those spots referred to earlier.  But nothing that is intelligible to the uneducated.  That is what I recall an occasional caddie at CPC told me.

It enables the caddies to give good advice.......

Benje

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I can remember distance poles 200 yards out from the tee (not a specific distance from the green) at Lilleshall Hall in the early 1960s when I started playing golf. I recall them at one or two other courses, too. There were many more marker posts on blind, semi-blind or dog-leg holes in those days, too. Marker posts behind greens were quite common. There are still a few at Delamere Forest. Is that one behind the 3rd green at RCD still in existence. And then there were stone cairns, too - 5th at RCD I seem to recall.

[Bill_McBride]

What is the significance of the marker stones on the Old Course at St Andrews?

[Melvyn Morrow]

Bill

The stones you refer to are Inch Stones on TOC – they are old  boundary markers, not distance aids -  Elie have them too

See photos.




Melvyn

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks!  What about the astroturf?