[Tim Bert]

This weekend, I played a course I've played at least 50 times.  The original author of this thread was a member there.  Going into the round, I knew that the first 6 holes had historically beat me up sufficiently.  I also knew that I haven't been playing as much lately and that my game is slipping.  I devised a plan, nearly shot by shot, to get around those first 6 holes in no worse than +6.  In my imaginary round, I ended up with an 84.  (A few on this site are familiar with my legendary performance in imaginary match play - I am deadly in that format!)

In reality, I got to the 2nd hole, and hit three different shots in the water.  I lost a ball and picked up on the 6th.  I posted a 48-47 for a 95 and without ESC that would have probably been a 99.

To sum it up, my round this past weekend was 100% strategy and 0% execution.

I look forward to a long winter of imaginary results that will build my confidence for 2011.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Jim

Still with the warning I fell of the chair, bloody hell, there is hope for Mankind, Jim agrees !!!!!!!!!!!

Tim

100% strategy, now that seems a little over confident considering how many times in the water???

Melvyn

[Phil Benedict]

Agree with JM, if your execution is perfect, you don't need strategy. You need strategy because you are playing the percentages.

I think you need strategy because execution is never perfect over the course of a round of golf.

[George Pazin]

Depends on the course. Most emphasize execution to a far greater degree, the best demand a large element of strategy.

[Tim Bert]

Melvyn, I'd agree completely if my strategy had been to hit the ball in the water three times.  

The strategy on that hole was to hit a hybrid off the tee to the right side of the fairway, hit a short iron to the right portion of the green and let it feed the ball down to the hole for a nice two-putt par.  100%

The execution on the hole was hit a popped up hybrid that didn't even travel 100 yards.  Drop and try to hit an 8-iron to lay-up just short of the green since the painfully slow group in front of us wasn't done putting.  Hit that shot in the water.  Drop from 100 yards short of the hole and push a lob wedge straight left into the water.  Pick up and go to the next hole.  0%

[Phil McDade]

When talking about golf's all time great collapses/choke jobs/drama (Mickleson at the us open, Van De Velde, even Dustin Johnson), how much of the failures were strategical and how much was execution?

Michael:

I've always thought Mickelson's meltdown at WFoot started with a very poor decision on the tee, because he'd been driving the ball not all that well during the US Open. He was getting away with it because his short game was terrific that week. Van de Velde, on the other hand, has said repeatedly -- said in the Saturday before Sunday's round in '99 -- that he was driving the ball phenomenally that week. And VdV's second shot was one of the worst breaks of all-time; nearly any other ball hit that far into the stands takes a drop near the green -- his landed back in the crud. Mickelson, meanwhile, tried to get too cute with his recovery shot after his poor drive. So, to me, Mickelson had the worse strategy.

Johnson's was a complete and total mental breakdown, from not reading the local rules sheet to not checking with anyone -- fully and carefully -- about what exactly his lie represented.

[Guy Nicholson]

Speculating about this is like Monday-morning quarterbacking -- you can only guess at how much of a role your strategy played because you can't try to execute all your strategic options under exactly the same conditions. Even if you try the flop shot after hitting that safe bump and run, you can't reliably say you had exactly the same lie and mental preparedness.

And besides, we all know golf is 50% putting.  

[RSLivingston_III]

For my game it was 50, 50.

I bet there would be a distinct pattern to the answers if the posters skill level was also listed.

BTW, I am in the camp that technology is responsible for reduced strategy in the game amongst the better players. (bet no one saw that coming)

[David_Tepper]

I would think the strategy component of golf is directly related to knowing what shots you are capable of executing on a regular basis.

[Mike Benham]

D I N G O ! ! !

I would think the strategy component of golf is directly related to knowing what shots you are capable of executing on a regular basis.

[Pat Burke]

In the days leading to the first round of a tournament, 100% strategic
In the actual tournament rounds                               100% execution of the plan

Happened about twice a year for me btw

[JESII]

No luck required Pat? C'mon...

[Pat Burke]

Jim, my luck on golf courses and money have one thing in common.  ALL BAD.
I do have a great wife, and a great kid, so no complaints!

[Tom_Doak]

Michael,

I think this is a misleading question, because the answer would be different for different players.

I have always figured that as a caddie, I could save a player 3 to 5 shots a round by steering them away from trying to execute low percentage shots, and by reading the greens well.  It is hard to save a good player that many shots, if they are really able to execute well.  But on the other hand, players at the highest level generally execute well, and it is mental mistakes and a general lack of focus that prevent them from playing very well most of the time.

[Jim Hoak]

As is the case in the answer to most questions, it depends . . . .
I think the answer to this question is one of the most central to this site.  The better the course, in my opinion, the higher the percent to strategy and the less to execution.  A great course might be 30% execution and 70% strategy; one of the new monsters might be 90% execution and 10% strategy.  The higher the strategy component, the more fun the course is.  And the more memorable.  And the more valued and cherished.  And, I would argue, the better.

[JESII]

Tom,

I disagree.

I think at every level there are those that look like they should be better but don't get enough out of it, and those that look worse but get more out of their game than people expect.

I also disagree that you (or any good caddy) couldn't save a scracth a few shots in a round...it's that lack of focus you reference that, if addressed by a caddy or alone, can easily result in three or four shots.

[Carl Nichols]

Tom,

I disagree.

I think at every level there are those that look like they should be better but don't get enough out of it, and those that look worse but get more out of their game than people expect.

I also disagree that you (or any good caddy) couldn't save a scracth a few shots in a round...it's that lack of focus you reference that, if addressed by a caddy or alone, can easily result in three or four shots.

But is lack of focus about execution [because it causes a poorly executed shot] or strategy [because it causes a poorly conceived shot]?  Could be either.

[George Pazin]

But is lack of focus about execution [because it causes a poorly executed shot] or strategy [because it causes a poorly conceived shot]?  Could be either.

It's statements like this that make me think the two are so interrelated that you can't separate them.

And unless you are willing to run multiple tests under like conditions, there is surely no way of evaluating them post shot, either.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Me thinks that we are making way far too much about nothing unless you have some specifics.

Why Oh why do many feel the need to complicate golf or put lots of numbers into something that just does not need it to play and enjoy

Is this self-gratification for its own sake,  if so, why because in my humble opinion skill comes from the inner minds eye with execution and strategy being occasional strange bedfellows.


Too many bulls may leave the course unplayable but will nourish the soil in the process yet I fear the same cannot be said about some of the verbal BS which in truth seems to have no effect upon GCA, the Game of golf or for that matter the condition of the course.

Melvyn
 

[David_Tepper]

"verbal BS" indeed!

[Colin Macqueen]

Gentlemen,
I have drifted out from a 12-handicap to an 18-handicap over the last 6 months. I can assure you that as my execution nowadays suffers from a "hint of the hosel" any strategy conceived in a moment of optimism is utterly destroyed when this quintessential lack of execution rears its ugly head. As a 12-capper I had delusions that I could be strategic. As an 18-capper, with a foreboding sense that I cannot execute, there can be (is!) no strategy in my game. From my dismal experience execution is everything!
Cheers Colin

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