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Scott Warren

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The magic of Riviera (pics)
« on: October 26, 2010, 11:22:05 AM »
I've long dreamt of seeing Riviera in the "flesh". My countryman Steve Elkington won the PGA Championship there when I was 12, just as I was starting to play golf. Later I learned it was where Ben Hogan won his maiden US Open and where Tiger Woods played his first Tour event. In the current decade Adam Scott and Robert Allenby won LA Opens there and then as I became more interested in golf design, I found out about George Thomas...

There's probably not a course I had anticipated playing more than Riviera and now there isn't a course I have enjoyed playing more, either.

Of course it was a dream come true to hit a drive from the elevated 1st tee and then play the likes of the 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th 16th and 18th, but I was equally blown away by 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15. It struck me late in the round that perhaps a way to identify the very best courses is by the quality of their weakest holes, and there wasn't a single hole at Riviera I thought was "weak".

Overall there was just an array of brilliant greens (1, 4, 6, 9, 10, 13, 15, 16), exciting, tempting and demanding tee shots (1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 13, 15, 18) and shots that you get a rush from (tee shot at 1, approach to 2, tee shot at 4, approach to 5, tee shot on 6, the whole of 7 and 8, approach to 9, the whole of 10, approach to 11, approach to 12, all of 13, approach to 15, tee shot at 6, approach to 17 and the whole of 18).

For a long time I have read about the brilliance of the 10th hole. I'd be kidding myself to say that after one play I understand its greatness, but I loved what I saw and was amazed by the options I saw from the tee and as I stood behind it, imagining where I'd want to be for different pins and it just seemed an absolute Rubix Cube of a golf hole, probably one of the best holes I have ever played and yet it's on dead flat ground and just 315 yards long!

The 4th was another that grew an extra leg seeing it first-hand. The bunker short is an absolute brute and the kick pad up the right is massive and gives a huge kick if you commit to playing out the right and using the slope.

I loved how the barranca was used on the second shots at 1 and 11, how it flanks the drive at 7 and cuts in so close to the 13th green. The grass was super long, too, making it a real hazard in the absence of water.

Lastly, the bunkering. It has to be seen to be believed. Big and deep, perfectly placed. They are bold, dominating the holes in the absence of dramatic land and working in tandem with the shaping Thomas and Bell put in, giving you a slightly uncomfortable lie or stance more often that you'd realise.

When you add to that the LA weather, the fantastic clubhouse up on the hill and the setting down in the canyon surrounded by multi-million-dollar homes up above, Riviera might just be the perfect place to play golf, and I don't say that lightly.


The 1st hole. The drive is as exhilerating as it looks (especially having stood there watching the sun rise behind the green!) and the green/bunker combo at the business end is just as awesome.


1st green from short/right.


The 4th hole, a fantastic Redan with a bunker short that ought to have its own zipcode and a massive kickpad that feeds to a steep R-to-L green. And at 236 yards it takes some taming.


The approach to the 5th. After a drive requiring a fade you find yourself on a hook lie trying to work out how much of the mound (Alps mound?) on the right to fly over. The mound is man-made, but ties in brilliantly with the natural movement of this hole right on the canyon edge.


The 6th. The green shaping makes the hole work so well. I left myself on the fringe with the bunker directly between me and the hole and had 3-4 options on how to get there.


From the front right fringe.


From back right.


The barranca flanks the right of the 7th from tee to green.


Approiaching the 9th. Just an awesome sight that makes you feel amazing inside.


The 10th. You can't believe how narrow the green is until you see it, and with the slope it plays even narrower than its 7 paces.


In the LHS of the fairway, the green is deep and it's all about being straight.


On the right, it's all about distance control, or you'll land short and pull up in the kikuyu or land pin high and spring down the slope to a chipping area at the back.


The 12th green set just over the barranca.


The 15th green, like a stretched Biarritz greenn turned 60 degrees to the right at the end of this dogleg right par four.


The 16th, a small green ringed by sand, but only a shortish iron. What a great hole to come across at this point in the round/match, with a monster par five and par four to follow it.


The home hole. I had never understood the ridge was THAT high (this pic doesn't do it justice - and how good is Michael Robin's position at the top?!). The second shot is just magic, in an incomperable setting - a perfect end to such a brilliant golf course.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2010, 09:28:43 PM by Scott Warren »

Jim Eder

Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2010, 11:30:34 AM »
Scott,

I so agree and the best thing is the more you play it the more you love it. There really isn't a weak hole. Sure maybe there are a few more trees than there should be or maybe the grass "grabs" a bit more but it is in my top 10 and the aura, Hogan's alley, it is just wonderful.  So glad you enjoyed a very special place. LACC with the work recently done may actually be even better than Riv, I hope you get a chance to compare them.  Thanks for your wonderful thoughts and pictures.

David_Elvins

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2010, 11:32:21 AM »
Nice write up Scott, the course looks spectactular.  Are you going to pasatiempo, I will be interested to see how you compare the courses if you are.

Without wanting to get into Fazio bashing, I am not sure I like the newer bunker style on 10.  



Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2010, 12:21:32 PM »
I, personally, think that the updated bunkering at Riv is outstanding. The depth and size of the caps and bays in the bunkers is hard to gauge via pics. I think that they are mean looking, intimidating and done very well.
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 12:51:51 PM »
Anthony,
I think the Fazio style on the bunkers stinks.  They look like a Florida golf course,,,,not that there is anything wrong with Florida!

Scott,
You take some good pictures from interesting angles for your first visit to the place.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 01:26:47 PM »
Great pics Scott,

I'm intrigued by what look like "flood lights" to the right of the green.
Can you enlighten me?

Steve Kline

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 01:30:35 PM »
Scott - you got to play with one knowledable and generous host too. I absolutely loved my round there. The course was just fantastic. I had no idea I was going to love it as much as I did.

Jim Eder

Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 01:42:35 PM »
I am with Lynn on the bunkers. Sorry, I would guess that after seeing the work at LACC that we will see the right decisions (at least I hope) somewhere down the road (hopefully soon).

John,

The "floodlights" on 6 are actually heat lamps. That is a tough green that has some issues because of the trees/lack of sun etc.  I am not as up to speed on the technical aspects as others on this site are and I am sure they can give you more details.

John Chilver-Stainer

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2010, 02:09:13 PM »
Thanks for the explanation Jim - I could imagine it's to provide UV for starved grasses.

Jim Eder

Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2010, 02:20:54 PM »
John,

You are welcome. It is a tough part of the course there but they do a really good job. Such a great hole.

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2010, 02:24:18 PM »
Scott,
I keep looking at these pictures and am so intrigued.  How do you get such a large depth of field?  The tees and greens both seem to be in focus.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2010, 02:27:04 PM »
Anthony,
I think the Fazio style on the bunkers stinks.  They look like a Florida golf course,,,,not that there is anything wrong with Florida!

And yo uthink that the C&C bunkering was better? If so, is that cause it's C&C?
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Ian Larson

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2010, 02:41:09 PM »
I am with Lynn on the bunkers. Sorry, I would guess that after seeing the work at LACC that we will see the right decisions (at least I hope) somewhere down the road (hopefully soon).

John,

The "floodlights" on 6 are actually heat lamps. That is a tough green that has some issues because of the trees/lack of sun etc.  I am not as up to speed on the technical aspects as others on this site are and I am sure they can give you more details.



...not heat lamps. Just lights to promote photosynthesis with the grass due to little sunlight. The green has hundreds of feet of pvc tubing underneath that runs hot water through it for heat.

Matt Bosela

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2010, 02:49:07 PM »
Great photos Scott.

Riviera, despite all the changes, is still a special place and remains one of my favourites.  Glad to hear you had a wonderful time.

Jim Eder

Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2010, 02:53:45 PM »
Thanks Ian.

Bill_McBride

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2010, 03:01:45 PM »
My only visit to Riviera was for the 2009 Northern Trust, so I haven't spent much time on the course.

Scott, one thing I thought about was how much cooler the course would be if the kikuyu-clad barrancas were sand and gunch bottomed.  Your thoughts?

Steve Kline

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2010, 03:51:07 PM »
Bill - I agree with you based on my one play there. In the old photos I believe that was their condition. Also the old photos show that those barancas were closer to thie line of play and greens if memory seerves correct. I seem to recall them being moved due to flooding. But this is all from memory from one round with the previously mentioned Mr. Robin.

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2010, 04:09:31 PM »
Anthony,
I think the Fazio style on the bunkers stinks.  They look like a Florida golf course,,,,not that there is anything wrong with Florida!

And yo uthink that the C&C bunkering was better? If so, is that cause it's C&C?


No question I like the Proctor/Axland work that was done around 1990 on behalf of C&C.  I prefer the "rougher/natural" look.  The reason is that they were digging, often with hand shovels, and found some of the original bunker contours and shapes.  The original shapes I think are the best.  There was a bunker on the right side of the landing area on 17 which was equal to anything on the course and was ruined years ago by installing a cart parth through it.
I also prefer the real Matterhorn to the one at Disneyland.  See my quote below.
If you prefer the Fazio look, I have no problem with that.  I don't expect everyone to agree me all time, nor do I think I am right all time, just personal preference.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2010, 04:40:19 PM »
Lynn,

More important, how did you hold Elvin Hayes to 10 points in that diamond-and-one defensive set back in 1968, during the NCAA tournament? 

Seriously. Awesome  :)
jeffmingay.com

Jim Eder

Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2010, 05:47:27 PM »
Ok, if Lynn really is THE Lynn Shackelford I am seriously impressed!!!! Doesn't get any better than UCLA basketball and John Wooden!! AWESOME!!! I am humbled every day at this site and now I am humbled even further!!!

Kevin Pallier

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2010, 06:37:47 PM »
Scott

How did you find the kik ?

Looks like you are having a great time and how did you hit them compared to Mike ?

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2010, 07:22:54 PM »
Ok, if Lynn really is THE Lynn Shackelford I am seriously impressed!!!! Doesn't get any better than UCLA basketball and John Wooden!! AWESOME!!! I am humbled every day at this site and now I am humbled even further!!!

Jim,

It is THE Lynn Shackelford.
jeffmingay.com

David Stamm

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2010, 08:49:47 PM »
I remember hitting balls on the driving range at Soule Park during the KP and heard a certain WSU student describing how he hated UCLA and on and on. On the other side of him hitting balls was a certain UCLA basketball great minding his business and not saying anything. I cringed when I realized that the WSU student had no idea who the tall drink of water was standing not 6 feet from him. I'll never forget the look on the WSU Cougars face when I went up and explained to him just who was standing on the other side of him. Just priceless and my favorite moment of that weekend. I think Lynn got a good laugh from it as well.


Riviera is one of my absolute favorite places and just awesome to play and simply walk around and take in, especially in the company of Mr. Robin. I daydream sometimes what it would be like if Gil, Geoff and Jim got in there and worked their Thomas/Bell magic there. Maybe one day. Thanks for the pics!
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Mark McKeever

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2010, 08:54:04 PM »
Course looks great!  I can't imagine the intimidation of that tee shot on 18.  Thanks for posting the pictures!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Scott Warren

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Re: The magic of Riviera (pics)
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2010, 09:27:58 PM »
Jim E: It was a great day, and though I didn't see LACC more closely than a few peeks through the fence, I hear it's now looking like being a pretty close-run thing as to which is better out of it and Riv. Perhaps a positive reaction to the aesthetics of the LACC reno might be noted by the powers that be at other LA clubs?

David E: I'm not playing Pasa, unfortunately. I'd have liked to but time didn't allow an extra day of golf on the west coast. Next time, hopefully.

John C-S: As well as the lights right of 6, there was a pretty hefty fan behind 7 tee (directly behind 6 green) blowing down the tee box, I guess to get some air movement in that tight little pocket. Given I only carried the barranca down the RHS by a few yards, maybe that extra wind assistance saved me?!

Bill McB: I thought the barrancas being filled with long, thick grass was pretty cool, and I am led to believe that method of maintenance is relatively new. It was long and thick enough that our group lost a couple of balls despite the caddies seeing exactly where they entered. Sandy/grassy could be a good look, but I think it's just a matter of preference.

Steve K: Indeed, he should write a book on how to show someone around your course for the first time. I commented afterwards that I learned and noticed more in that one guided round that I would have gleaned in a dozen by myself. That elevated the experience, no doubt.

Lynn S: Thanks for your kind words about the pics. I am not sure how I manage such a deep depth of field. It's just an Olympus pocket-size point-and-shoot that I bought because it's shockproof and waterproof.

Kevin P: I liked the kikuyu (there was a very funny moment before the round where it was noted that I was best to avoid using the slang term we use in Australia for Kikuyu while I was in the US ;D). It was a great playing surface - perfect fairways, tough rough (even at about an inch and a half). The rough reminded me a fair bit of Aussie rough, in that it wasn't likely you'd lose a ball in it, but your lie would vary greatly and be unreliable, and of course when it's deep in kikuyu you can't have any faith in hitting a mid or long iron anywhere near full tilt.

I putted a fair bit from 3-10 yards off the greens and the kikuyu rolled really smoothly and with good speed though the fairway/fringe. I am used to non-links grasses grabbing the ball and making the fairway speed too different from the green speed for a putt from 10m off to be something you can feel the speed of. But after getting over the feeling it would slow down too much (gassed a couple way past), it was great.

As far as the kikuyu grabbing an approach that lands short, I suppose that's just what kikuyu does. As in life, I love variety in golf and different grasses allow different shots and provide different challenges. I will say, I had 45-60m approaches to 10, 11 and 15 and it made those shots all the more difficult at 10 and 15 knowing I had a pin cut only 5 yards on and a green sloping hard away from me so if I landed short it would grab and if I flew long I would run down the hill. It made distance control all the more crucial.