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John Kavanaugh

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The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« on: October 25, 2010, 09:37:13 AM »
I was fortunate this weekend to attend the funeral of a young prominent farmer.  In all aspects of my life recently I have been struggling with the basic issue of faith.  Faith in universal truth, faith in the trust of people I love, employ, barter with and pass on the road or street.  This is not something so simple as a religious issue.  I could be using any number of examples from the promise of eternal life to if my bottled water was previously opened and refilled from the tap.

Using the funeral.

At one point when the Priest was going through the mandatory spiel of how great it is on the other side, I sat and listened for someone to finally stand up and call B.S..  It didn't happen.  Between playing mind golf in my brain backwards so as not to tear up beyond an acceptable amount given my status as a casual acquaintance it hit me that as I near death I should be getting on the belief train, not off.  Ho hum, who doesn't feel the exact same way from time to time.

The cemetery.

The man was a John Deere Man.  He even had a John Deere tractor imprinted on the lining of his casket and a John Deere tractor lead his funeral procession.  All is normal with a welcoming breeze that lightens the mood as one young girl wore a delightfully inappropriate short skirt, until.  We were each given a ballon of either green or yellow color, the colors of John Deere.  At the conclusion of the ceremony, on the count of three, we each released our balloons.  The breeze carried away the balloons in a perfect harmony of elevation and distance that even a game a backwards mind golf could not dispel.

The paradox.

Much later that evening, after attending the excellent play, Coach by Dick Enberg, which celebrates the life of Al McGuire, my 15 year old son asked me what was so sad about the balloon release.

What do you think is the paradox and how could this relate to Golf Course Architecture? Or, what color would be your balloons?

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2010, 09:57:57 AM »
Good to have you back, John. ;D

Your question requires a bit more coffee...


George Pazin

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Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2010, 09:59:24 AM »
Celebrating life at a funeral is always somewhat paradoxical, but I don't see much of an alternative.

I broke down at a good friend's funeral a couple years ago and was comforted by his dad. I still feel a mix of embarrassment and awe any time I run into him. Such strength, far more than I.

I suppose I could find tie-ins to gca, but I think they'd look as small as I did. Sorry for your loss.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Phil_the_Author

Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2010, 10:07:48 AM »
Mine would be thought balloons....

Mike Hendren

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Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2010, 10:13:17 AM »
Perhaps a struggling faith is the best kind.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2010, 10:16:51 AM »
What is backwards mind golf?

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2010, 10:17:17 AM »
JK,
Couldn't make it easy, like 'the bunker at the 5th is in a stupid place'.

The older we get the more we(some of us anyway) long for the same feeling of unity that we were born with. The balloons that tie us to a friend are better understood by older folks who intuitively know what it is they've lost.

Unity is also missing in some GCA.


Clear balloons.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2010, 10:41:13 AM »
for some reason this popped into my mind:  "Treat others the way you want them to treat you"
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2010, 10:52:55 AM »
Faith is a personal thing.  For some, it's a man in the clouds, putting money in the plate on Sunday and conversion.  For others, golf and golf courses are a mystical experience.  On 9/11, after the planes hit and I knew one of my best friends had been killed, I went to my place of worship, my club, and cried my way around 18 holes....Perhaps now we should be mourning the death of the era of real-estate development golf, huge garish clubhouses, unnecessary food-service and over-the-top maintenance practices.  Hence my balloons would be faded green and gold...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 10:55:31 AM by Jud Tigerman »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2010, 10:57:02 AM »
John:

My faith in God grows stronger as I age.

My faith in people diminishes. 

We are all broken, in one way or another.

Losing someone we care about is always hard.  I am sorry for your loss.

Bart

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 11:18:14 AM »
John:

OK, I've had more coffee, so here's my take...

I thought of three courses here in Wisconsin -- Lawsonia, Spring Valley (a Langford/Moreau near the WI/IL border), and Whistling Straits.

For me, Lawsonia represents nearly an ideal experience in golf and golf architecture. Not perfect (stupid tree fronting a fairway bunker on #15), but even its minor flaws aren't enough to detract from the experience. It's like listening to "Kind of Blue," or watching "Casablanca" -- the overall experience is just so good and enjoyable and fun that I can easily dismiss any detractors as silly. It restores my faith in what golf and golf architecture should be.

Not long ago, I played Spring Valley, the very definition of a hidden gem, a largely untouched Langford course that's a blast to play. It can be frustrating, in some regards -- the greatly reduced green size on the Sahara-like short par 4 14th diminshes the hole considerably, the elongated par 5 2nd feels forced (originally a par 4), the pace of play can be slow if the starter sends out a foursome of undisciplined hacks in front of you. But my two rounds there recently cost $15 (total; it's the fall all-day rate); its maintenance meld was absolutely ideal, reflecting the dry conditions we've had here in Wisconsin this fall (and far better than the highly touted University Ridge near Madison, which somehow managed to play soft and wet despite a month's absence of rain in these parts); and the course in my several years of playing it has never tried to be anything other than what it is; it has the least pretense of any "good" course I've played. Yes, it could be better, but I'm grateful that I live close enough to play it fairly regularly. It reminds me of my teenaged sons -- sometimes aggravating beyond belief, but I wake up every morning thankful they are healthy and active and reasonably well-behaved.

I have often defended WStraits here on this board, notably during the controversial PGA this past summer. To me, it accomplishes what it set out to do -- provide a stern but fair test to the world's best golfers in major tournaments. Its architecture strikes me as both fun and challenging -- say what you will, the eight holes along the lake are solid tests of golf, and look really neat. Sure, it can be arbitrary -- any course with thousands and thousands of bunkers is likely to be at some point -- but the game has always had its arbitrary elements, and you need to look no further than The Old Course to see why (and how being arbitrary is a good thing). Yet much of WStraits I just find frustrating -- its price structure of $300+ rounds, its "busy" look, its too-many forced carries, its fawning attempts to be an Irish links on soil hardly conducive to such, its utter irrelevance to its surroundings. It's the Old Testament of golf courses.

Maybe, as Bogey suggests, faith ought to be something we struggle with. I struggle with my advocacy of WStraits; to this day, I have yet to play it (I've walked it). My faith in proper golf architecture and golf as it should be played is challenged at Spring Valley, because it could be better, but I never leave the course without a smile of my face. Like my faith, it's not perfect, but it strives to be something good. Lawsonia, to take your faith analogy perhaps a bit too far, is probably Easter Sunday.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 01:18:42 PM by Phil McDade »

Peter Pallotta

Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 11:18:43 AM »
John - as in life so too in golf course architecture: the more of self -- even the best of self, especially the best of self -- the less of that which is greater than self; in life, the less unmanifest spirit, in gca, the less of the manifested genius of nature. I'm hoping that drinking the bitter potion of a dissipating faith down to the last drop makes room for a greater faith to emerge.

Peter


JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 11:27:37 AM »
Shouldn't this thread be labeled OT as it has nothing to do with golf course architecture?

Bogey is right, by the way, fewer things could be better than a struggling faith.  And of course, Peter Pallota is the most right that the more of self, the less of that which is greater than self.

GCA tie in, the more man is capable of manipulating nature the less we will have that is natural.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 11:30:46 AM by JC Jones »
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 11:29:27 AM »
JK,
after spending the day last week with the Dalai Lama and listening to his lecture, which was diluted by having Richard Gere on the stage...and it scared the hell out of every gerbil at the college...I am more convinced than ever you go to have faith...because the Lama thing was very diluted and circular to me...
Anyway....without judging or knowing all the circumstances around the framer....I find it sad that "John Deere" stood out more in his final minutes than family memories etc.....And it seems that for many on here the Prominence of the Architect/course stands out far more than the average daily experience of the old home course or the game itself....oh well....good to see you are back...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2010, 11:43:30 AM »
Personally, I don’t see any sort of correlation between religion and golf course architecture, let alone a funeral in rural Illinois. Sorry for your loss.
H.P.S.

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2010, 12:12:01 PM »
Welcome back JK

The funeral paradox, as opposed to the statistical birthday paradox which is more optimistic, is in your case, the bare finality of death contradicting the religious hope of eternal life.
That’s where faith comes in – you’re asked to accept the paradox and not defy it – take it or leave it.

There are dozens of paradoxes in golf course architecture which beg belief and require a little faith.

The blind Par 3 will divide the masses - and was that really a hole-in-one or just a young urchin hiding behind a bush. 
Is a bunker a friend or a foe? A saviour from a fate worse than death - or a fate worse than death.
Is entering Hells Bunker an uplifting experience?
Is the valley of sin good?

Balloons are colour blind  - they won’t answer your question ………………….

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2010, 01:00:27 PM »
JK,

You were fortunate to attend a funeral?  I was once chastised for responding to a request to be a pall bearer by saying "I will be happy to do that. (honored, I guess is a better word)  Better than a cousin, who managed to utter "better him than me" to a greiving widow, or even my mother, who once remarked to the greiving husband that it "at least we are all vertical today", while standing next to his wife in the casket.

You were playing backwards mind golf and watching some skirt blow up. I wonder how many were figuring out how to get in the branded casket business?

I love watching animals witness a death of one of their own.  They mill around a bit and then just sort of leave.  Are humans any different, really?  We basically try to ignore what just happened so we don't have to think of our own mortality, don't we?  Or make fun of a guy whose main memory in life was his association with a tractor company.....

Will I be mocked if I ask to be buried in my ASGCA Ross Tartan blazer?
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2010, 01:17:03 PM »
The correlation is that it doesn't matter what we believe, we have to deal with what is.

If you like this and get that, why bitch and moan? Deal with it. Appreciate where you are and while you're there.

Life's too short to play golf and have your head crammed so far up your own ass, you can't feel, or see, anything else.

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2010, 02:00:59 PM »
I always admire the uniquely human ability to canonize our dead.  Unless someone was a really bad person with a documented history, it seems that most shortcomings and sins can be washed away with death.  Growing up in the south, I can remember being at several funerals and hearing my paternal grandmother use the term, "God love him...".  I generally perked up when I heard this saying, knowing that a cleansing was coming.  I couldn't wait to hear what fault would be forgiven because the fortunate--or is it unfortunate--chap had gone on to his great reward.  One in particular was funny to me because I had known the man as a friend of my grandfather's and a stand up family man.  "God love him, he loved the ladies"

I find more and more that life mimics a good comedy.  Tragedies of a Shakespearean (or J. Cameronian) style rarely play out in real life.  Such is the story of the young farmer.  It makes me curious to know how the farmer spent his time.  Was he a country song cliche' that plowed fields 6 days a week?  The inclusion of John Deere paraphernalia makes me wonder.  I assume he had redeeming qualities since even acquaintances were misty at his unfortunate departure.

Writing this from what amounts to an air conditioned Hanjin container in northern Iraq; sardonic writing is to be expected.  As to how this connects to golf architecture?  Well, I've recently seen some work of resurrection while on my travels, and the subject of canonizing of our dead seems appropriate here.  I have to wonder if the current versions of places like Sleepy Hollow aren't better than their original form.  The archeological work of Bahto and Hanse at Sleepy is very impressive.  But the Macdon-inghast version of Sleepy didn't have the agronomy of today.  It didn't have the drainage of today.  The list goes on.  I wonder if courses by the ODG's that have been restored or painstakingly protected over the years and updated with better greens and tree management are better (gasp) than the originals.  The answer has to be a resounding yes.  The ODG's were very talented no doubt.  But just because they are long gone doesn't make them any smarter or better than our current crop or architects.

My balloon would be black, because it makes me look thinner.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2010, 02:27:54 PM »
...The ODG's were very talented no doubt.  But just because they are long gone doesn't make them any smarter or better than our current crop or architects.

I think this is a fairly common misconception on here.

The ODGs aren't revered because they're long gone. They're revered because they built courses that have stood the test of time.

I was recently amazed when someone (Joe Bausch, I think, maybe Mike Cirba) posted on old overhead drawing of Oakmont. It matched up pretty darn well with the current course. It's amazing to me that someone built a course a hundred years ago that is still testing the best players in the world as well as anything built in the last 10 years.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

TEPaul

Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2010, 03:25:54 PM »
Barney:

My first thought after reading your initial post is perhaps you've been thinking a bit too much lately. My suggestion is to watch some of those wonderful old cartoons from the '50s and 60s on TV on Saturday morning and really get into them. That might give you a whole new and fresh perspective on things. You know, ones like MickeyM, Bugs Bunny, Popeye or even the Road Runner.

Do not watch any cartoons any later than the 50s or 60s or you might get deeper into things like Paradoxes and Faith Dissipation or at least Faith Dyspepsia.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 03:29:33 PM by TEPaul »

Anthony Gray

Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2010, 03:40:17 PM »


   Al McGuire once mentioned that the paper napkin resteruants were better than the cloth napkin ones.Cruden Bay is a paper napkin kind of course.That's why I love it so much.

   Anthony

 

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2010, 04:24:20 PM »
John,

I see this is your first post.  Perhaps you are new here.  The moderator, Ran, just posted that those posting only off-topic will be deleted from the discussion group.  If this happens to you, you will still be free to read the discussion group (as all those with internet access are).  It would indeed be a shame if nobody gets a chance to know you better.  You seem like an interesting fellow.

Bill_Yates

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Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2010, 04:35:30 PM »
John,
I would argue that by its very definition, "faith" implies a paradox and dissipation.  

Definition: Faith - belief that is not based on proof  :-\

When it comes to religion, many have a religious faith but still no real proof.  So is it any wonder that even Mother Teresa admitted to losing her faith?  Perhaps after her passing she now has the proof.

On a lighter note, in golf, as each of us stands over a shot, we try to have faith in its positive outcome.  But until we actually make the swing, we have no proof of our ability to actually pull it off.  

Perhaps in both situations we should rely on our faith then commit to the shot.  :)
Bill Yates
www.pacemanager.com 
"When you manage the pace of play, you manage the quality of golf."

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Paradox of Faith Dissipation
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2010, 04:37:34 PM »
John,

I see this is your first post.  Perhaps you are new here.  The moderator, Ran, just posted that those posting only off-topic will be deleted from the discussion group.  If this happens to you, you will still be free to read the discussion group (as all those with internet access are).  It would indeed be a shame if nobody gets a chance to know you better.  You seem like an interesting fellow.

Not sure if you are serious, but John has been around the block before. Did you not notice all of the Welcome Backs?

JK - I am glad you are back and look forward to seeing you again one day soon. I struggle with my faith from time to time as I do with my golf game. My balloons would be orange and green.
Mr Hurricane

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