Expose yourself as a FRAUD - I'll go first!

[Jed Rammell]

As one of the lone dissenters regarding Old Mac (see Subtlety thread), I figured I would list some GCA panned Golf Course attributes that I actually sometimes enjoy:

1 – Greens with 3 or 4 distinct shelves (a la Rees Jones) rewarding a shot played close to the pin with a flat putt and a difficult two putt if on the wrong shelf. A five footer with 8 inches of break is never fun to me.

2 – Some old-school, tree lined golf courses that are “out in front of you.” Its fun for me to see the shot that should be played, and then pull it off and be rewarded for it.

3 – Golf Courses that are easy - I enjoy making birdies, and I enjoy shooting a good score.

Based on the preceding lines above, I’m not sure I qualify as a GCAer; “Joe Six-Pack” may more aptly fit the bill. It looks like I’m a brain dead, card and pencil type with no imagination. Anyone else have any guilty pleasures, or am I the lone voice of insanity?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Some would say my biggest fraud is representing my own self as a golf course architect....

On the golf side, in keeping with the opening post, I say:

Valley Fairways - I just feel so damn comfortable lining up to hit them.
Old School What You See is What you Get golf courses
And of course,.....catch basins!

[Garland Bayley]

Some would say my biggest fraud is representing my own self as a golf course architect....
...

And you were saying you hadn't been interviewed for this site ......................................................................................?

[Ken Moum]

I happily admit that I like golf courses that aren't too hard, especially off the tee. Oh, and don't expect me to like a course that's much over 6,300 yards.

And I HATE playing golf in a lumberyard.  Ditto extra-long rough, especially around the green

But I like fast, undulating greens, and can really get behind a course that offers the opportunity to putt off a green or three.

K

[Ben Voelker]

I like #9 at Memorial Park in Houston 

[JESII]

For me, greens cannot possibly be "too fast".

[Jeffrey Conners]

I, too, bear the shame of being a lover of fast greens.

[JESII]

I like perfectly conditioned bunkers...because otherwise I can't get it on the green, and lose the ball about half the time...

[Eric Smith]

No contours necessary.  I love the silky smooth, though relatively flat, Tom Weiskopf designed greens at Forest Dunes in Michigan. In a cart. With a cooler. Full of beer.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think the real answer or problem is that everyone likes something different from a golf course. I think people can appreciate long courses though not really enjoy them themself equally the idea of tricky greens is great but golfers hate to three putt. Very few will enjoy narrow golf courses with knee high rough and searching for balls, very few will like slow play, but plenty like carts, fountains in ponds and striped fairways. No one will like all golf courses equally and there are plenty of haters of TOC.

[Tom_Doak]

I think the real answer or problem is that everyone likes something different from a golf course. I think people can appreciate long courses though not really enjoy them themself equally the idea of tricky greens is great but golfers hate to three putt. Very few will enjoy narrow golf courses with knee high rough and searching for balls, very few will like slow play, but plenty like carts, fountains in ponds and striped fairways. No one will like all golf courses equally and there are plenty of haters of TOC.

Adrian:

I agree with you totally ... which is why I can never understand your posts about having to do this or that because it's what the customers want.

The diversity of our customers is our freedom to build what we think is best.

[Garland Bayley]

My home course violates most of what I post about here.
What the members think is the "signature hole" is the worst hole on the golf course with a stinking (not literally) pond.

But, hey, Huckaby and I say we would play in a parking lot, and the course is very close to my home.

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think the real answer or problem is that everyone likes something different from a golf course. I think people can appreciate long courses though not really enjoy them themself equally the idea of tricky greens is great but golfers hate to three putt. Very few will enjoy narrow golf courses with knee high rough and searching for balls, very few will like slow play, but plenty like carts, fountains in ponds and striped fairways. No one will like all golf courses equally and there are plenty of haters of TOC.

Adrian:

I agree with you totally ... which is why I can never understand your posts about having to do this or that because it's what the customers want.

The diversity of our customers is our freedom to build what we think is best.

Tom our UK model is different, when we look at who plays where, location and close proximity is very important. Typically 70% of your membership comes within 20 minutes drive time this side of the pond. That makes it hard to have a golf course that will exclude some, so you need to capture ALL the possibles in that 20 minute zone. Its hard to move away from the tried and tested methods, in a difficult economy you dont want to lose business, none of the golf courses I have designed have gone bust, all make a profit, many have expanded from 18 holes to 27 or 36. People tell me they can tell an Adrian Stiff golf course when they play one so I must leave some sort of common stamp but as a lower end architect I cant perhaps be as expressive as I would like trying to cater for all categories of golfer.

[Carl Nichols]

Pristine conditioning, including fast greens. 

[Jim Jackson]

Risk/reward par fives, with long second shot carries over water to thin fingers of green, and no option for the run up.  Love 'em, I admit

[PThomas]

The diversity of our customers is our freedom to build what we think is best.

careful Tom...the above sounds like a business motto developed by an MBA!

(I should know:  MBA, 1985, U of I  at Chicago)

[Pat Burke]

Sometimes, I actually enjoy Melvin's posts

[George Pazin]

- I strongly prefer walking - I'd rather walk a good course than ride a great one;

- I'm a huge fan of Tom D and C&C;

- I try not to use yardage aides;

- I greatly prefer firm and fast to soft and easy, even if it's over the top;

- I believe the ideal golf course should strive to challenge all levels of golfers;

- If I were good enough to offer a challenge to anyone, I'd greatly prefer match play to stroke play.

Can't think of any others, feel free to suggest some.

[Sean Leary]

- I strongly prefer walking - I'd rather walk a good course than ride a great one;

- I'm a huge fan of Tom D and C&C;

- I try not to use yardage aides;

- I greatly prefer firm and fast to soft and easy, even if it's over the top;

- I believe the ideal golf course should strive to challenge all levels of golfers;

- If I were good enough to offer a challenge to anyone, I'd greatly prefer match play to stroke play.

Can't think of any others, feel free to suggest some.

George, I think you missed the point on this one my friend. 

[Peter Pallotta]

On the rare days that I hit the ball half decently, I don't like heavily contoured greens or fast and firm conditions -- they make a hard game even harder. I prefer flat greens tilted back to front, and soft turf that cradles the ball where it lands and tees it up for my next shot. It's the card and pencil mentality that I especially like when I'm playing half-decently; I want to record an 18-hole score that is better than my opponents.

On the other days, it doesn't matter anyway.

Peter

[George Pazin]

George, I think you missed the point on this one my friend. 

Maybe I did, maybe I didn't...your choice.

[Garland Bayley]

- I strongly prefer walking - I'd rather walk a good course than ride a great one;

- I'm a huge fan of Tom D and C&C;

- I try not to use yardage aides;

- I greatly prefer firm and fast to soft and easy, even if it's over the top;

- I believe the ideal golf course should strive to challenge all levels of golfers;

- If I were good enough to offer a challenge to anyone, I'd greatly prefer match play to stroke play.

Can't think of any others, feel free to suggest some.

George, I think you missed the point on this one my friend. 

No he didn't. He can't live up to any of that.

[Matthew Rose]

OK, well, I'll out myself on a few things.

I like fast greens.
I like trees.
I like water holes.
I like green fairways.
I like playing golf with a GPS.
I dislike fescue.
I dislike courses that rely on weather conditions to be the primary defense.

But I also like Redans, Biarritzs, very short par-3s, and hitting run-up shots... so hopefully you won't revoke my posting priveleges just yet

[jonathan_becker]

I'll out myself on a few things....

inconsistent bunkers....i don't care that it's a hazard - give something consistent

I would always prefer a cart for the second 18....but I've played 115 rounds thus far in 2010 and have walked probably 90 of those

I want yardages....it screws with my mind when I don't know how far it is to certain points on a course that I've never played

I like forced carries off the tee  

EDIT - Sean Leary's post below reminded me that I like desert golf as well. 

[Adam Clayman]

I don't care what I like. Adapting to what is in front of you is the essence.  I do like hearing others bitch and moan about what they don't like. Garland's comment surely must be in jest? You go George!